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The EU and the Irish Border.

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Irish history? You mean the rebels who started a civil war halfway through WW1?

 

The Irish Civil War started in 1922- nearly 4 years after the Great War finished.

You are probably referring to the Easter Rising and the reaction to the executions that followed.

 

---------- Post added 27-11-2017 at 19:17 ----------

 

That post needs a bit of editing!

 

oops!

-did not finish called away.

Edited by Jeffrey Shaw
Offensive word removed

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Irish history? You mean the rebels who started a civil war halfway through WW1?
Trust a 'kipper to argue for denying a colony country its sovereignty :rolleyes:

 

And that, people, is the scale of Ukippers' hypocrisy: positively boundless.

Edited by Jeffrey Shaw
Offensive word removed

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The UK has said no such thing.

 

Weird, Tory after Tory is coming out saying that no deal is fine, 'we'll just default to WTO', are you saying the Tories aren't in government?

 

The current arrangements for people work just fine and will continue to. Eire isn't party to Schengen.

 

Eire is part of the single market. If I am a Romanian with a passport I can get into the UK without a border check beyond the airport in Dublin. :help:

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Weird, Tory after Tory is coming out saying that no deal is fine, 'we'll just default to WTO', are you saying the Tories aren't in government?

 

 

 

Eire is part of the single market. If I am a Romanian with a passport I can get into the UK without a border check beyond the airport in Dublin. :help:

 

Somebody from France can do that as well.

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Somebody from France can do that as well.

 

Agreed, doesn't have the same Daily Mail effect though.

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The UK is leaving the EU . The Republic of Ireland is in the EU , so there should be border controls between the Republic and Northern Ireland ( which is in the UK ) . A soft border will mean any EU nationals can just fly to the republic ,then drive over the border into the UK. This cannot be allowed to happen. There must be border controls .

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The UK has said no such thing.

 

---------- Post added 27-11-2017 at 18:10 ----------

 

 

The current arrangements for people work just fine and will continue to. Eire isn't party to Schengen.

 

 

The only problem with the current system is that the Irish government as part of the EU have to let EU citizens in to the republic because of the free movement of people agreement. What is then going to stop people just catching a train from Dublin to Belfast and in to the UK unckecked?

 

We have no right to suggest the Irish Republic leave the EU because it suits us. This problem has been created by the United Kingdom and The republic of Ireland have been sucked in.

 

The idea that Northern Ireland can remain in the customs union and free trade agreement outside of Great Britain is an interesting one . Watch all the money men in London up sticks and move to Belfast and Londonderry. That would be interesting....

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The only problem with the current system is that the Irish government as part of the EU have to let EU citizens in to the republic because of the free movement of people agreement. What is then going to stop people just catching a train from Dublin to Belfast and in to the UK unckecked?

 

We have no right to suggest the Irish Republic leave the EU because it suits us. This problem has been created by the United Kingdom and The republic of Ireland have been sucked in.

 

The idea that Northern Ireland can remain in the customs union and free trade agreement outside of Great Britain is an interesting one . Watch all the money men in London up sticks and move to Belfast and Londonderry. That would be interesting....

 

The huge problem with the current system is that relies on a whole raft of published and unpublished agreements with no legal basis, apart from anti-terrorist laws an some shared visa agreements referred to as the Common Travel Area.

The only thing that holds it together is the current EU directives etc. and the "black book" lists each country show each other. Travel documents, booking forms, credit card details etc. provided by air and sea carriers in advance of travel to each border authority. Photo recognition technology is also used and in the recent past at least, fellow travellers from the security services.

 

With Unionists keeping the Government in power there is no possible way of them supporting anything that separates them from Britain. Looking south more than 30 000 people cross at 200+ crossings along a 300 mile border for work each day. Some ROI regulars use a passport card. Would NI residents use these? Probably many would. With the Unionists agree to this legislation? No, unless all GB users all had one (ID cards everyone?).

 

Could any body tell me what a "hard border" looks like?

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Could any body tell me what a "hard border" looks like?

 

apparently we voted to take back control.

 

and if we're talking about controlling a border, particularly a *land* border, then that means fences, gates, guards, etc.

 

The EU have asked the UK to suggest a solution to the border, our response so far has been no more sophisticated than waving our hands around, and saying "oh y'know, technology - computers probably"

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The EU have asked the UK to suggest a solution to the border, our response so far has been no more sophisticated than waving our hands around, and saying "oh y'know, technology - computers probably"

 

"Ball is in your court" IIRC.

 

EU people just look totally mystified whenever that is said.

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Could any body tell me what a "hard border" looks like?
Away from the over-simplifying rethoric spouted by any side, pragmatically, a "hard border" would look like inspection of minimum 40% of all goods transiting across the border either side, respectively by each customs border force, and potentially up to 100% for at least 6 months in case of no deal.

 

That would effectively finish off agribusiness in NI in very short order.

 

It's not as if the Republic would have any choice, as an EU26 member state.

 

Nor the UK, if it hoped to trade with the world on WTO MFN terms (notwithstanding its imbecilic proclamations of leaving the door wide open with zero tariffs: that would have the exact same effect of killing off the agribusiness in record time, across the entire UK this time...then the UK would find it wholly impossible to negotiate any kind of trade agreement with anyone -bar perhaps North Korea-, never mind of the 'free' sort).

 

Strictly speaking, there's no need for soldiers, tanks and helicopters, and inspection of every last person and bag crossing over either side. Just the bulk stuff (a lorry-load of fags evading duty at the border is worth £60m to the Exchequer, people).

 

There would only start to be people and machines in green around the Irish border if, as and when custom officials were to start getting targeted by paramilitaries. But that would be mostly a UK problem and cost (as before), not so much an IE one.

Edited by L00b

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Maybe a better idea is for the Republic:

a. to leave the EU; and

The Republic do with the EU26 more than twice the amount of trade they do with the UK. It would be economically foolish to side with their minor trade partner.

b. to rejoin the UK!

Give up on your Empire 2.0 fantasies - it's not going to happen.

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