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22 minutes ago, Cyclecar said:

I am loath to post on a political issue, but.....

 

Many Democrats have never really accepted the result of the 2016 Presidential election. That someone like Trump could garner a majority of votes and beat Hillary was inconceivable. He was the anithesis of everything they strived for, so they moaned and whinged and tried to frustrate hime at every turn. I don't care for Trump at all, and would never vote for someone like him here, but that's their system.

 

Having now got their wish and seen Biden elected, they are using the dying days of Trump's office to extract retribution. They will be rid of him in a week or so, but vindictiveness has set in. The USA has many issues that need sorting, Covid-19 being the most urgent. Yet they are spending days on inward looking self-pleasuring. 

 

No one comes out of it all with any credit. 

do you think Trump should get away with radicalising a large swathe of the population? inciting insurrection? trying his damnedest to subvert democracy? those are high charges? its not nicking a loaf of bread from the local spa.

Dont forget theres now people out there calling for civil war, protesting while armed and calling for killings

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25 minutes ago, Cyclecar said:

I am loath to post on a political issue, but.....

 

Many Democrats have never really accepted the result of the 2016 Presidential election. That someone like Trump could garner a majority of votes and beat Hillary was inconceivable.

You probably shouldn't post on political issues if you are going to get such basic things wrong. Hillary got more votes than Trump and the only reason he got to be president was because of their electoral college system.

 

Quote

He was the anithesis of everything they strived for, so they moaned and whinged and tried to frustrate hime at every turn. I don't care for Trump at all, and would never vote for someone like him here, but that's their system.

That's just how the US system has worked since the Reagan years - there's little cross party legislation. Look at the way the Republicans behaved when Obama was president.

 

 

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3 hours ago, frigate said:

Serious question: Is Trump more likely to cause further rioting by saying that he is not going to Biden's inauguration or is Pelosi more likely to cause further rioting by trying to impeach Trump?

 

Pelos symbolises the problems with the Democrats that resulted in Trump’s election in 2016. At no time since 2016 have the Democrats with Pelosi at the forefront of their arrogance ever addressed the issue of how someone like Trump could win an election. After 8 years of Obama did not someone question what they were doing wrong. If the Democrats were able to address at a level of commonality the concerns of more Americans Trump would not have won. But at no time in 4 years was there any introspection or evaluation. No one asked what did we do wrong. Instead led by Pelosi they embarked on a furious campaign against the President of the United States. His election was never accepted. And now they complain about a lack of a smooth transition. And were they a more reasonable lot that would be a fully justifiable complaint.
So after 4 years of constant attack Pelosi and her comrades should hardly be surprised that there is division in the country. Trump is at fault. So is Pelosi. And what does she do to heal division. She says to the almost 75 million people who voted for Trump that we are now going to pursue him much as one did to your enemies in the 17th century. Which guarantees further division. Bitterness does not make a politician and I can only hope that Joe Biden separates himself from Pelosi and says to his party, now is a time of forgiveness and reconciliation and not revenge.

Spot on. Whole rafts of people in America feel they are not represented by either the Republicans or the Democrats.

Trump, for all his wealth and swagger was a political outsider who spoke for them.

57 million voted for Trump rather than Hilary Clinton whom the politicos  thought was a shoe-in. That's a lot of people to dismiss merely as nutters etc etc. 

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50 minutes ago, Cyclecar said:

I am loath to post on a political issue, but.....

 

Many Democrats have never really accepted the result of the 2016 Presidential election. That someone like Trump could garner a majority of votes and beat Hillary was inconceivable. He was the anithesis of everything they strived for, so they moaned and whinged and tried to frustrate hime at every turn. I don't care for Trump at all, and would never vote for someone like him here, but that's their system.

 

Having now got their wish and seen Biden elected, they are using the dying days of Trump's office to extract retribution. They will be rid of him in a week or so, but vindictiveness has set in. The USA has many issues that need sorting, Covid-19 being the most urgent. Yet they are spending days on inward looking self-pleasuring. 

 

No one comes out of it all with any credit. 

I agree, so they should have been asking the question 'why' did the people elect him over Clinton?  I have never liked Trump, but he was a popular and successful figure in America prior to his election. After his election came the total character assassination. I wonder how much of this was due to the perversion and misreporting of the media?

 

The reason I ask is because the same thing happened to Corbyn. 

 

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4 hours ago, West 77 said:

 

Just for completeness Donald Trump never tried to stage a coup.  Impeachment proceedings against Donald Trump will be a distraction for the Joseph Biden administration at a the worse possible time because of the consequences of the pandemic. 

Trump is trying to overturn the result of a properly executed democratic election and the processes by which the correct and proper processes for the orderly transfer of power. Had the people who broke into the Capitol last week managed to get close to any of the members of congress then it seems likely that some would have been injured or killed. 

 

All his actions from November onwards have been a coup, admitedly a stupid and poorly run one but still a coup and the next person to try this will probably be better at it. There needs to be clear consequences for this sort of behaviour as much to try and warn the next man against this behaviour as to punish Trump, perhaps more so.

 

You should also consider where the country would have gone had he managed to actually overturn the democratic result. 

 

I agree its a distraction but democracy is something that needs active support and defence and this is one of those times.  

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Spot on. Whole rafts of people in America feel they are not represented by either the Republicans or the Democrats.

Trump, for all his wealth and swagger was a political outsider who spoke for them.

57 million voted for Trump rather than Hilary Clinton whom the politicos  thought was a shoe-in. That's a lot of people to dismiss merely as nutters etc etc. 

Happy to dismiss them as facists if that helps.

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1 minute ago, tinfoilhat said:

Happy to dismiss them as facists if that helps.

facist nutters?

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11 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I agree, so they should have been asking the question 'why' did the people elect him over Clinton?  I have never liked Trump, but he was a popular and successful figure in America prior to his election. After his election came the total character assassination. I wonder how much of this was due to the perversion and misreporting of the media?

 

The reason I ask is because the same thing happened to Corbyn. 

 

Not everything is about Jeremy bloody corbyn. Corbyn was an over promoted back bencher.

 

Trump is a huge liar. I don't need the media to misrepresent him, I just listen to the words coming out of his mouth. I've no idea why you're giving a dangerous right wing nut bag any credit at all.

2 minutes ago, andyofborg said:

facist nutters?

He does bring people together.

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49 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Spot on. Whole rafts of people in America feel they are not represented by either the Republicans or the Democrats.

Trump, for all his wealth and swagger was a political outsider who spoke for them.

57 million voted for Trump rather than Hilary Clinton whom the politicos  thought was a shoe-in. That's a lot of people to dismiss merely as nutters etc etc. 

57 million people voted for the Republican Party who happened to have selected Trump as their candidate.

There is a 2 party system in operation and just as in this country some people are not floating voters.

If Trump were to stand as an independent he would get an insignificant proportion of the votes .

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42 minutes ago, Anna B said:

I agree, so they should have been asking the question 'why' did the people elect him over Clinton?  I have never liked Trump, but he was a popular and successful figure in America prior to his election. After his election came the total character assassination. I wonder how much of this was due to the perversion and misreporting of the media?

 

The reason I ask is because the same thing happened to Corbyn. 

 

You're not comparing Trump to Corbyn???

And I thought you liked Corbyn :hihi:

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1 hour ago, Anna B said:

I agree, so they should have been asking the question 'why' did the people elect him over Clinton?  I have never liked Trump, but he was a popular and successful figure in America prior to his election. After his election came the total character assassination. I wonder how much of this was due to the perversion and misreporting of the media?

 

The reason I ask is because the same thing happened to Corbyn. 

 

I think Anna, the 'character assassination' Trump received at the hands of the media, (and I'll take your word that - I don't read American newspapers or watch their current affairs), might have something to do with how he conducted himself, and the stances he took whilst in office. He was and is inflammatory, and a divisive figure. 

As to why people elected him, who knows....I do know from a British perspective how strange the Republican demonisation of a socialised health system is. I associate Hilary Clinton with affordable care policy, simply because back in the early 2000s she visited Britain and spoke highly of the NHS. 

We are told, ironically she was hated by poorer members of the voting public because she was portrayed by Republicans as a 'limousine liberal', with her facts and figures about how unfair and costly the American healthcare system is. In fact the strategy of Republicans against Democrats is very similar to the strategy of Conservatives against Labour in the UK. 

More about that here: BBC News - Why do people vote against their own interests?

I think Trump liked to play the outsider or the victim. Not economically as he was hugely wealthy, but liked to portray himself not as part of some 'liberal metropolitan elite', but as someone who is in tune with the average man, and spoke just like how he thinks the average man speaks: Boorish, bigoted and vulgar. Which says more about his patronising view of the hoi polloi than any Democrat could.

Edited by Mister M

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9 minutes ago, Mister M said:

 

I think Trump liked to play the outsider or the victim. Not economically as he was hugely wealthy, but liked to portray himself not as part of some 'liberal metropolitan elite', but as someone who is in tune with the average man, and spoke just like how he thinks the average man speaks: Boorish, bigoted and vulgar. Which says more about his patronising view of the hoi polloi than any Democrat could.

Just like his mate Nigel Farage, populist

Edited by melthebell

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