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Mr Trump - All discussion here

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9 hours ago, Anna B said:

I think it's very complicated, with different factions and agendas, and a distorted media input, but people are very angry.

I think we have to look at the bigger picture. It's not all about Trump. And it's not about a handful of extremists or conspiracy theorists running amock, the dissatisfaction runs deep through society., and they have lost faith in the democratic process. I think the situation in America is a result of that. The 'American Dream' is on its arse.

 

It seems right across the globe, people are becoming more divided, in terms of wealth, health and education, and, more to the point, they are realising it, and how much they have been  deceived by people they trusted.  Disatisfaction abounds and they are  beginning to see the glaring flaws in their Capitalist and Democratic systems, and the real cost of the rise of globalised Neoliberalism. They are sick of being ignored, lied to, blamed and used as cash cows. And they are tired of the hypocrisy.

What I want to know is, what makes these dissatisfied people think that millionaires like Farage, Rees-Mogg and BoJo, or  billionaires like Aaron Banks and Trump himself*, are the answer to society's problems?

 

We've had ten years of Tory rule in the UK, and four years of Trumpism in the US.

 

Has society gotten better or worse in that time?

 

*Trump claims he's a billionaire

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Michael_W said:

4 people died, one of them a woman who was shot dead, but you won't see any outrage about that, what you see in the MSM is clearly deluding you, do you visit the US much or just an armchair expert ?

There is lots of outrage about it, and quite rightly so.

What shocked me was there relative inaction of the police. 

 

Edited by Mister M

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Michael_W said:

4 people died, one of them a woman who was shot dead, but you won't see any outrage about that, what you see in the MSM is clearly deluding you, do you visit the US much or just an armchair expert ?

No, there won't be any outrage about the deaths. If you take part in an armed insurrection you are putting yourself in harms way by choice. They knew the risks.

Inferring that the outrage should be the same as someone getting shot driving home from work and then talking about MSM deluding people says more about you than me.

And for the record, I lived in the USA for a while and am still in contact with many of the friends I made over there. 

 

1 hour ago, Delbow said:

Because minding your own business or driving a car or smoking a joint are basically the same as attempting a coup of course.

Exactly.

Edited by whiteowl

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9 hours ago, Anna B said:

I think it's very complicated, with different factions and agendas, and a distorted media input, but people are very angry.

I think we have to look at the bigger picture. It's not all about Trump. And it's not about a handful of extremists or conspiracy theorists running amock, the dissatisfaction runs deep through society., and they have lost faith in the democratic process. I think the situation in America is a result of that. The 'American Dream' is on its arse.

 

It seems right across the globe, people are becoming more divided, in terms of wealth, health and education, and, more to the point, they are realising it, and how much they have been  deceived by people they trusted.  Disatisfaction abounds and they are  beginning to see the glaring flaws in their Capitalist and Democratic systems, and the real cost of the rise of globalised Neoliberalism. They are sick of being ignored, lied to, blamed and used as cash cows. And they are tired of the hypocrisy.

 

In the UK, it seems it has taken a Global pandemic to highlight the inequalities in society although they have been staring us in the face for years. There is a disconnect between our MPs and the people they are supposed to represent. I've said it before. A tick in a box once every 5 years for pre-chosen candidates, then  to be ignored for the rest of the time, is not Democracy in any real sense, (and a second house full of unelected toffs, clergy and 'Lords' is not representative either.)

 

When everybody gets a fair slice of the cake, nobody really cares that much about who is in charge.

But when all you get is the crumbs, while others gorge on the cake, it is a recipe for trouble.  

 

The American Presidential elections are normally very close with a much smaller percentage gap between the winner and loser than the EU referendum result. The only thing that has changed in America is one man who refuses to accept the democratic choice the American people made and the one man is the defeated President.  Democracy works well when the losers accept the democratic choice their own people make.  It has to be said that Donald Trump and members of the rogue UK parliament that blocked the implementation of the EU referendum result have tarnished democracy in their respective countries which only helps the powerful dictatorships of Russia and China.

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6 minutes ago, West 77 said:

It has to be said that Donald Trump and members of the rogue UK parliament that blocked the implementation of the EU referendum result have tarnished democracy in their respective countries which only helps the powerful dictatorships of Russia and China.

I don't recall  armed gangs of Leave voters marching into the Houses of Parliament, demanding BoJo fulfil his election lie to give £350 milion a week to the NHS?

 

Maybe I missed it

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2 minutes ago, The Joker said:

I don't recall  armed gangs of Leave voters marching into the Houses of Parliament, demanding BoJo fulfil his election lie to give £350 milion a week to the NHS?

 

Maybe I missed it

Yeah I think the Bake Off final was on, loads of us missed it.

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16 minutes ago, West 77 said:

The American Presidential elections are normally very close with a much smaller percentage gap between the winner and loser than the EU referendum result. The only thing that has changed in America is one man who refuses to accept the democratic choice the American people made and the one man is the defeated President.  Democracy works well when the losers accept the democratic choice their own people make.  It has to be said that Donald Trump and members of the rogue UK parliament that blocked the implementation of the EU referendum result have tarnished democracy in their respective countries which only helps the powerful dictatorships of Russia and China.

They weren't blocking it they were arguing over the terms (which were not specified during the referendum) - just as the members of the ERG were. If the ERG hadn't blocked May's deal Brexit would have gone through much earlier.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

Wow.

 

Any thoughts on how last night's events were distorted through the media? I mean there were a few singing a different tune to the rest of us - keunesberg called it "scuffles". The lies i saw last night were from Donald trump, hes still claiming he won be a landslide. Most of the republican party have turned their backs on him now. I'm amazed you're trying to see another point of view when that point of view carries a confederate flag and wears camp Auschwitz t shirts. What view am I missing from that lot?

I am no Trump supporter but Mahatma Gandhi said 'If there is an idiot in power it means those who elected him are well represented.' And that I think sums up what this is about. An awful lot of people feel they are not represented by the 'normal' politicians who are corrupt and live in a different world to them, so they go for outsiders: in this case,Trump. He promised to 'drain the swamp' and that's what people wanted to hear. He's a rich, powerful man, they believed he could do it. They believe he was stopped by fraudulent means. 

 

There is no doubt in my mind that politics is a dirty business and needs a thorough clean up. Once in power manifestos are abandoned and promises broken. Croneyism and jobs for the boys abound. There is fraud and dishonesty aplenty, and cover ups. Money is king and rules the system. Vested interests are kept in power. The system does not represent the people and it seems there is little that can legally be done to change it. A vote changes nothing when the system is rotten. That is not Democracy.  Are all these people attacking democracy or defending it? 

 

Some reports said hundreds of thousands of people were involved, and that's just the ones that turned up to demonstrate. That's a lot of people, and not all nutters.

Trump might be a bad man, but even when a good, strong, honest man, but an outsider, stands up wanting to represent 'the people,' he is also branded a nutter, a joke, a marxist, and so on, and his supporters are similarly diminished with slanderous slurs. You know of whom I speak.... He still has an enormous following of people who feel their views are not represented, but they do know how the media distorts the facts and ruins reputations. 

 

People might not agree with this appraisal, but there is a crisis in the world. Things need to change on many fronts. Somebody somewhere has to address it, and soon.

 

Edited by Anna B

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Are all these people attacking democracy or defending it? 

To anyone of sane mind, they are attacking it.

 

If they believe the election was rigged now would be a good time for Trump to present his evidence.  If the QAnon theory is correct wouldn't now be a good time for Trump to act?  He has done neither.

 

Still, always good to see you crow-bar in your own interpretation of neoliberalism and imply all would be well in the world if Corbyn-alikes were in charge.  

 

Edited by Arnold_Lane

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There is something seriously wrong with the American political system, when a sitting president can incite mob violence resulting in the storming of Congress and the deaths of 5 people; and get away with it scot free.

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Did any protesters get arrested ????..

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Box11 said:

Did any protesters get arrested ????..

 

 

Fifty-odd if I heard right on the radio this morning.

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