Jump to content
We’re excited to announce the forum is under new management! Click here for details.

Mr Trump - All discussion here

Recommended Posts

On 13/09/2020 at 16:56, Magilla said:

By virtually every measurable metric, like bills proposed, bills signed,  jobs created, the economy, GDP growth highs, the national debt, or time golfing... previous presidents achievements are significantly higher...

 

...except for the golfing :thumbsup:

 

 

 

Evidence?

 

The Washington Post has done an analysis on the Trump era using official statistics . https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/09/05/trump-obama-economy/ 

You have to discount 2020 because of the impact of the pandemic realistically but just to summarise the comparison to the previous president (ive removed Obamas first year as it is all mainly negative scores)

 

Average Job Gains -  Obama 186K / Trump 182K

Average Economic Growth (GDP)  - Obama 2.2% / Trump 2.5%

Unemployment - Obama end of office 4.7% / Trump pre corona 3.4%

Black unemployment - Obama end of office 7.5% / Trump pre corona 5.4%

Stock Market - Obama end of office 2271 (Had been as low as 871) / Trump Pre corona c3000 and now back above 3400

Average Food Stamps- Obama 43.6M / Trump 39.6M

Manufacturing Output - Obama end of office 102.4 / Trump c105

Average Debt Growth year on Year - Obama 2.2% / Trump 0.9%

Wage rises - Obama end of office 2.5% / Trump pre corona 3.5%

 

Do you have verifiable evidence to counter this and support your comment Magilla?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Difference being

Trump took over an already recovering good economy.

The stock market is a terrible way if measuring the economy,the current high is buy backs from the multi trillion tax cut to the top couple of percent.

And in a good economy you pay the debt down.

Trump has overseen the national debt rise from $19 Trillion to $27trillion

I think that's the fastest increase in American history even including WW2.

He did say in 2016 he would eliminate the debt.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, sheffbag said:

Evidence?

 

The Washington Post has done an analysis on the Trump era using official statistics . https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/09/05/trump-obama-economy/ 

Indeed, and as previously stated, in nearly every metric previous presidents did better.

 

Quote

You have to discount 2020 because of the impact of the pandemic realistically but just to summarise the comparison to the previous president (ive removed Obamas first year as it is all mainly negative scores)

7 years for Obama, yet only 3 for Trump?

 

Wouldn't it be better to compare Obama's last term with Trumps first (-covid), or just include everything?

 

Not for Trump it wouldn't! :hihi:

 

Quote

Average Job Gains -  Obama 186K / Trump 182K

A more reasonable comparison over similar timescales - 215k / 182k

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckjones/2019/07/05/trump-is-falling-almost-1-million-jobs-short-vs-obama/

 

Quote

Average Economic Growth (GDP)  - Obama 2.2% / Trump 2.5%

Average of Obama's last term, 2.4%. Highs of 3.1.

As your link makes clear regarding Trump:

"well below the growth under the Clinton, Reagan and Johnson administrations".

 

"Rating the Trump Economy Pre-Covid-19? Just Average"
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-08-13/how-trump-s-economic-growth-record-compares-with-past-presidents

 

Quote

Unemployment - Obama end of office 4.7% / Trump pre corona 3.4%

Reduced by 3.3% in Obamas second term, 1.2% under Trump so far.

 

Quote

Black unemployment - Obama end of office 7.5% / Trump pre corona 5.4%

5.4% is Trumps low, not pre-corona! Black unemployment was rising pre corona.

So, a 7.5% drop (over Obamas 2 terms) compared to Trumps 2.1% (assuming the incorrect 5.4%) so far.

Both graphs clearly show a straight line from the Obama administration, both slowed under Trump and Black unemployment was rising again pre-corona.

Regardless, your interpretation is like claiming you climbed Everest when really you were carried up 3/4 of the way.

 

Quote

Stock Market - Obama end of office 2271 (Had been as low as 871) / Trump Pre corona c3000 and now back above 3400

An almost straight line from 2010.. where is the "Trump effect"?

To quote your link: "Though Obama had better market gains, both presidents have been good for Wall Street."

 

Quote

Average Food Stamps- Obama 43.6M / Trump 39.6M

Mainly a result of the Bush recession, really this highlights that even in a supposedly "booming" economy Trump has done very little here.

 

Quote

Manufacturing Output - Obama end of office 102.4 / Trump c105

"Manufacturing output and jobs stalled in 2019, an early warning sign of economic trouble.", that was before the pandemic.

...was higher under Bush!

 

Quote

Average Debt Growth year on Year - Obama 2.2% / Trump 0.9%

Misleading, the vast majority of Obamas dept was inherited from Bushs Iraq war, significant amounts of funding for the war were done in emergency supplemental appropriations that were "off the books" and not included in the budget until Obama came to power...

...and an inherited recession.

 

None of that suddenly went away after Obama's 1st year. If we're including that debt, we should also include the covid debt too on the Trump side.

 

In reality US debt was exploding pre-pandemic, Covid has merely obscured that view.

 

Quote

Wage rises - Obama end of office 2.5% / Trump pre corona 3.5%

Again, an almost straight line from 2013, but regardless, Obama reached 3.7% & other presidents have done better.

Middle class income rose more, and faster in Obamas second term than Trumps first (pre-corona).

 

Quote

Do you have verifiable evidence to counter this and support your comment Magilla?

Did you even bother to read your own link, because in many cases it directly supports my comments!

 

Edited by Magilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people are going to be very upset when Trump wins the Nobel Peace Prize for bringing peace to the Middle East. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's laughable the current  hurrahs, two tiny undemocratic states  who can be bought as they want to get thier mits on the latest US military hardware.

Way ,way more important is the US recognising Jerusalem as the Isreal capital againgst pretty much entire world opinion,and UN resolutions,and all the reformers  ( realists)in Isreal.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tony said:

Some people are going to be very upset when Trump wins the Nobel Peace Prize for bringing peace to the Middle East. 

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is no more? When did that happen?

 

Oh yeah, it didn't! :roll:

 

The central irony, The UAE decided to normalise relations specifically to shut Trump out and stop his plan ever happening! :hihi:

 

Trump agreed to give Israel the green light to annex Palestinian territory on the West Bank, so the UAE decided to make a deal themselves to stop Trump being able to, offering full normalisation to Israel in return for no annexation.

As a bonus, the UAE also neutralised Israeli opposition to arms sales requests:

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/middle-east/2020-08-19/trumps-accidental-diplomacy-middle-east

 

I suppose Trump does deserve some credit, if he hadn't come up with such an abysmal plan, the UAE would not have offered full normalization with Israel to block it.

 

Trump, and you, are going to be very upset if Greta Thunberg or the WHO wins :thumbsup:

Edited by Magilla

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And the leader of Kosovo, looked a bit put out that he had agreed to Jersulem being capital.

The ideal that these confections of deals are anywhere near what Jimmy Carter achieved with a real foe  of Isreal is pitiful.

 

From memory ,didn't Trump have a fake " man of the year" Time magazine cover on his wall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

US Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, an iconic champion of women's rights, has died of cancer at the age of 87, may she RIP.

The passing away of Ruth Bader Ginsburg may have a longer effect on the United States than President Trumps decisions as he will try to install his choice of a new Supreme Court Justice before the election.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 19/09/2020 at 09:29, Thorpist said:

US Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, an iconic champion of women's rights, has died of cancer at the age of 87, may she RIP.

The passing away of Ruth Bader Ginsburg may have a longer effect on the United States than President Trumps decisions as he will try to install his choice of a new Supreme Court Justice before the election.

I guess that solemn pledge Republicans made, that they won't confirm a new SC judge in an election year, doesn't work both ways ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 18/09/2020 at 15:21, Magilla said:

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is no more? When did that happen?

 

Trump, and you, are going to be very upset if Greta Thunberg or the WHO wins :thumbsup:

1. The Palestine matter is a gnat on the rear of Middle East politics. Whatever side anyone chooses to be on the simple truth is that it is used as a proxy to attack Israel by real countries who historically have a problem with Israel. Those real countries have been beating up each other for decades too depending on which tribal loyalty they adhere to. Removing the tribal loyalties by bringing them alongside Israel only leaves Iran out in the cold and nobody is very upset by that - except Iran.

 

2. The Nobel Peace Prize isn't really suitable for either Thunberg or the WHO is it. 

 

I did say that people would be upset :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Tony said:

1. The Palestine matter is a gnat on the rear of Middle East politics. Whatever side anyone chooses to be on the simple truth is that it is used as a proxy to attack Israel by real countries who historically have a problem with Israel. Those real countries have been beating up each other for decades too depending on which tribal loyalty they adhere to. Removing the tribal loyalties by bringing them alongside Israel only leaves Iran out in the cold and nobody is very upset by that - except Iran.

There isn't peace in the Middle East... and what shoots of peace there are aren't of Trumps making. :roll:

 

6 hours ago, Tony said:

2. The Nobel Peace Prize isn't really suitable for either Thunberg or the WHO is it.

Far more than it would be suitable for someone who's record is one of deliberately stoking division.

 

6 hours ago, Tony said:

I did say that people would be upset :)

Get your tissues ready :thumbsup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In a shock to nobody, it looks like the Don has been playing fast and loose with his taxes for the last 20 years or so.

He paid $750 in tax in the year he got elected and has paid no tax in 11 out of 18 years that the New York Times has looked at.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/27/us/trump-taxes-takeaways.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes

 

Guardian link in case you get paywall issues with the NY times link :

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/27/new-york-times-publishes-donald-trumps-tax-returns-election

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.