Mr Trump - All discussion here

[L00b 441]

14 minutes ago, Delayed said:

Ok just for my satisfaction how many times does that need to be said before discussion moves on?

The discussion inevitably ebbs and flows over time and, where Trump or Brexit are concerned, faster than for most other topics.

 

But I'm not sure that wishing for the discussion to move on, so soon after these outrageous tweets were sent by Trump (even by Trump's "standards", they're well up there in the outrageousness stakes: BNP-worthy at the very least), is a good look.

 

But you're not wishing for the discussion to move on from those tweets so soon...are you?

 

Does the US have hate crime legislation like the UK? Because if these had been sent by a Minister or MP, he or she would have been insta-referred to the Met for hate speech. Rightly so.

Edited July 15, 2019 by L00b

[bendix 10]

6 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Really until he resigns or at the very apologies for it. Surely everyone - apart from racists, they get a free pass I suppose - needs to condemn it. Especially his supporters  unless of course they agree with it. Do you agree with these tweets?

The issue for me is not that Trump tweets this sort of stuff (although this takes it to a new level, to be fair), because we all know that he is a deeply stupid, deeply troubled man.  He will have tweeted this in a moment of anger, presumably because those four women were getting coverage for visiting the detention centres.  He hits back and in the process reveals his true nature.

 

The issue for me is that there will not be a single Republication senator or representative with the moral fortitude to rebuke Trump for his remarks.

 

History will dismiss Trump as a sideshow in years to come; a deeply ignorant man.  He will be the butt of jokes.  History will be less kind to the craven acquiesence of the GOP leadership who refuse to stand up to him.

[Delayed 461]

1 minute ago, L00b said:

The discussion inevitably ebbs and flows over time and, where Trump or Brexit are concerned, faster than for most other topics.

 

But I'm not sure that wishing for the discussion to move on, so soon after these outrageous tweets were sent by Trump (even by Trump's "standards", they're well up there in the outrageousness stakes: BNP-worthy at the very least), is a good look.

 

But you're not wishing for the discussion to move on from those tweets so soon...are you?

I want to move the conversation on from getting me to say he's a racist

[Guest]

How many things is this guy going to get away with - he seems to be courting controversy all over!

The guy is clearly fostering hate, division and seems to not give a damn.

 

There is now also information coming through that he stopped the Iran nuclear deal in spite of Obama!

[tinfoilhat 11]

2 minutes ago, Delayed said:

I want to move the conversation on from getting me to say he's a racist

Which you didn't do in post 3509. 

[bendix 10]

Just now, Mr Fisk said:

How many things is this guy going to get away with - he seems to be courting controversy all over!

The guy is clearly fostering hate, division and seems to not give a damn.

 

There is now also information coming through that he stopped the Iran nuclear deal in spite of Obama!

He won't get away with it Fisk.  He will be tossed out of office next year and then he will start to face the legal consequences of some of the worst lies, fraud and abuses of power as soon as he is no longer President.  he is not just fighting for reelection in November 2020. He is fighting to stay out of prison.

 

The election won't be won by watching polls or all that nonsense.  The real issue will be turnout, as it was in the mid-terms.  The more he does this sort of stuff, the more the silent middle ground will turn against him and will be motivated to vote and get rid of him.  THAT is what the democrats must focus on.  It is the key to end this nonsense.

 

 

[Delayed 461]

1 minute ago, tinfoilhat said:

Which you didn't do in post 3509. 

Yes I'm aware of that but I gave reasons as to why. 

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 minute ago, bendix said:

He won't get away with it Fisk.  He will be tossed out of office next year and then he will start to face the legal consequences of some of the worst lies, fraud and abuses of power as soon as he is no longer President.  he is not just fighting for reelection in November 2020. He is fighting to stay out of prison.

 

The election won't be won by watching polls or all that nonsense.  The real issue will be turnout, as it was in the mid-terms.  The more he does this sort of stuff, the more the silent middle ground will turn against him and will be motivated to vote and get rid of him.  THAT is what the democrats must focus on.  It is the key to end this nonsense.

 

 

Now here I disagree. He hasn't stopped campaigning. A significant number still like him. He's either created, or at the least continued a narrative where the truth doesn't matter and it can be hand waved by his supporters. He'll lie about this one and, make no mistake, he's getting 4 more years. He'd win if he stuck a burning cross on the front lawn of the white house.

[L00b 441]

12 minutes ago, bendix said:

The issue for me is not that Trump tweets this sort of stuff (although this takes it to a new level, to be fair), because we all know that he is a deeply stupid, deeply troubled man.  He will have tweeted this in a moment of anger, presumably because those four women were getting coverage for visiting the detention centres.  He hits back and in the process reveals his true nature.

 

The issue for me is that there will not be a single Republication senator or representative with the moral fortitude to rebuke Trump for his remarks.

 

History will dismiss Trump as a sideshow in years to come; a deeply ignorant man.  He will be the butt of jokes.  History will be less kind to the craven acquiesence of the GOP leadership who refuse to stand up to him.

It is a genuine issue, which finds some sort of equivalent here with otherwise-rational MPs out-no dealing each other to curry favour with Boris (main exhibit m'Lord: Amber Rudd).

 

An arguably worse issue (IMHO) is that such tweets by POTUS, unchallenged by the US political majority, continue to stimulate, legitimise and entrench racial hatred and xenophobia in vast swathes of US citizens (and beyond).

 

Othering is the new(-old) political black, it's political high fashion and it's working well. For shame: nothing we haven't seen before in the 1930s.

Edited July 15, 2019 by L00b

[tinfoilhat 11]

3 minutes ago, Delayed said:

Yes I'm aware of that but I gave reasons as to why. 

And this is a fantastic example of it. "Its inappropriate, let's move on".

 

The president has told 4 democratic congresswoman to go back to their own countries despite 3 of them being born in the US.

 

Yeah, let's move on.

[bendix 10]

We shall see.  His base has not moved from the 38-42 percent for the last two years.  And it won't move; this is the number of people who would vote for him if he shot up on Broadway.

 

The key is mobilising the remaining 60 percent of voters.  This is precisely what Obama did, and it happened again in those states that had elections in the mid-terms.  There are no more Trump voters hiding in the woodwork waiting to come out.  They have angrily voted to their maximum ability; what HASN'T happened yet is all the angry Trump critics have come out to vote.  That is what will get rid of him.

 

[Halibut 12]

1 minute ago, L00b said:

It is a genuine issue, which finds some sort of equivalent here with otherwise-rational MPs out-no dealing each other to curry favour with Boris (main exhibit m'Lord: Amber Rudd).

 

An arguably worse issue (IMHO) is that such tweets by POTUS, unchallenged by the US political majority, continue to stimulate, legitimise and entrench racial hatred and xenophobia in vast swathes of US citizens (and beyond).

Can you imagine Boris (or the other poshboy/idiot for that matter) ever having the moral fortitude to call Trump out over his ever more blatantly racist rhetoric?

 

No, me neither. I find it both infuriating and profoundly depressing.