On the rise of fascism.

[Halibut 12]

No, I don't think so. Mostly it is just misunderstandings.

 

How do you define it?

 

Fascism is misunderstandings? Behave yourself.

[nowt2pctoday 10]

No, we wouldn't because it's far too narrow and simplistic.

 

a bit like left wing politics then:roll:

[Hairyloon 10]

Fascism is misunderstandings? Behave yourself.

 

You behave. I was clearly referring to the muddied waters.

[Cyclone 10]

Well it would be if we agreed on the definition. Are we happy with it being "a regime that suppresses all criticism"?

 

Not really no.

 

Definition of fascism for Students. : a political system headed by a dictator in which the government controls business and labor and opposition is not permitted.

 

---------- Post added 30-08-2017 at 12:33 ----------

 

You defined it in the opening post didn't you

 

Quote:

Fascism

[fash-iz-uh m]

noun

1.

(sometimes initial capital letter) a a political philosophy, movement, or regime led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

 

Why the attempt to redefine it to only include the part about suppressing criticism? Would it be so that you can claim that anti fascism is some kind of fascism? A typical right wing ploy, they claim that to be tolerant someone must tolerate intolerance.

[Hairyloon 10]

Why the attempt to redefine it to only include the part about suppressing criticism?

Mainly laziness.

Would it be so that you can claim that anti fascism is some kind of fascism? A typical right wing ploy, they claim that to be tolerant someone must tolerate intolerance.

It is a fair point: you must tolerate it insofar as you cannot suppress it through force, only through persuasion.

[Harrystottle 10]

A typical right wing ploy, they claim that to be tolerant someone must tolerate intolerance.

 

As opposed to the usual left wing ploy, which is to state that to demonstrate how tolerant we are, we must be completely intolerant of intolerance.

 

Because their own intolerance is completely appropriate, whereas other people's intolerance is completely awful.

[Cyclone 10]

 

This explains it well.

 

Intolerance cannot be tolerated in the name of being more tolerant. Tolerate anything except intolerance.

It's not a ploy, it's a philosophical position, and a logical one. It's not about demonstrating tolerance, it's about keeping society tolerant.

In reality there are many things we won't tolerate, racism, murder, assault, theft, bigotry, religious persecution and so on.

[petemcewan 27]

Contribution to the discussion.

 

The Doctrine of Fascism. This extract is taken from an essay by Mussolini, which constitutes the official version of an article first published in the Encyclopedia Italiana in 1932.

 

Straight from the horse's mouth.

 

 

“The fascist conception of life is a religious one, in which man is viewed in his permanent relation to a higher law, endowed with an objective will transcending the individual and raising him to conscious membership of a spiritual society…

 

Being anti-individualistic, the Fascist system of life stresses the importance of the State and recognizes the individual only in so far as his interest coincides with those of the State…..

 

Fascism stands for liberty and the only liberty worth having, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State. The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values may exist, much less any value. Thus understood Fascism is totalitarian….

 

Fascism, in short, is not only a lawgiver and a founder of institutions but an educator and a promoter of spiritual life. It does not merely aim at remolding the forms of life, but also their content, man, his character and his faith. To achieve this purpose it enforces discipline and makes use of authority, entering into the mind and ruling with undisputed sway. Therefore it has chosen as its emblem the Lictor’s rods, the symbols of unity, strength, and justice….

 

The State educates its members to citizenship, makes them aware of their mission, urges them to unity….The State hands down to future generations the memory of those who laid down their lives to ensure its safety or obey its laws, it sets up as examples and records for future ages the names of captains who enlarged its territory and of men of genius who have made it great...

Wherever respect for the State declines and disintegrates and centrifugal tendencies of

Individuals and groups prevail, nations are heading for decay.

 

If liberalism spells individualism, Fascism spells collectivism. The Fascist State, however, is a unique and original creature. It is not reactionary but revolutionary.

 

Europe drawing inspiration from her institutions from the doctrine and practice of Fascism; Europe, in other words, giving a Fascist turn to solutions of problems which beset the modern State, the Twentieth Century which is very different from the State existing before 1789, and the States formed immediately after.

Today Fascism answers to universal requirements” (Mussolini and the Fascist Era. Desmond .Gregory. ).

 

 

 

 

On founding Fascism Mussolini hoped to ride to power on the grievances of the masses -or at least of the lower middle class.

 

However, he soon learned that a quicker route lay in pandering to the neuroses of Italian conservatives. So Fascism in Italy became in every respect -save propaganda- a right-wing movement. For Italy’s conservatives, Mussolini stood as a shield against a host of evils subsumed under the headings of socialism and pacifism.

.

 

Two significant features of fascist regimes are their methods of utilizing the existing machinery of power and their intervention in the economy.

 

“No fascist regime came to power

with a ready made blueprint of aims. The structure of the existing state administration was rapidly changed to ensure the supreme position of the leader and the permanency of the

Regime. There can be no doubt about the crucial importance of the leader to a fascist movement: no movement without a leader succeeded in establishing itself as a regime.Less

Important, at least to judge by the examples of Salazar and Franco, were the charismatic qualities of the leader. But the greater part of the old machinery of state continued to be used”.

(European Fascism. Edited by S.J. Woolf. Pub.1968 Lowe and Brydone Ltd. SBN 297 76383 0.The Graduate School of Contemporary European Studies. University of Reading ).

Note: Fascism intervenes in an economy as an inevitable result of its exaltation of the state. "Fascist economics may have been, improvised, short- sighted, inequitable and erroneous, but they existed". (European Fascism, S. J. Woolf .Italian Fascism and the Economy. S. Lombardini-The Nature of Fascism .S.J. Woolf.).

 

A case might be made for banning the term Fascism from political vocabulary.For like other words- reactionary, anarchy, radical-it has been so misused.

 

It’s impossible, to sum up, fascist regimes in any simple way. In western Europe, fascism and Nazism possessed their own private armies. In central and eastern Europe, the fascist paramilitaries could not hope to rival the army.

 

“For fascism in these countries was a movement from above, an attempt to transform an already existing authoritarian regime into a fascist dictatorship from within. \It only developed as a spontaneous movement from below if the repercussions of an economic or international

crisis were such as to upset the economic-social equilibrium to a degree where enfranchized but apathetic groups of the population blamed the conservative government for being insufficiently radical “ (European Fascism. S. J. Woolf. ).

 

 

It’s MHO that fascism of the old variety is never likely ever to take root again- I hope.

Edited August 30, 2017 by petemcewan

[Hairyloon 10]

 

This explains it well...

 

It presents a false dichotomy: suppress intolerance or ignore it.

The proper answer is to eliminate the environment in which it can prosper.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Hairyloon

[petemcewan 27]

Hairyloon,

 

Right on the button.

 

I'd just like to add. The connection between mass unemployment and the rise of

fascism is well known. Full employment and steady economic growth and a respect for democracy, are the surest antidotes to mass political extremism.

[dutch 68]

Today I'm gonna be for fascism

Tomorrow against fascism

Day after for communism

Then half day tory and next half labour.

Next week Christian

Except for Wednesday ill be against it.

 

I can choose when and what I believe in. Why, because even if someone put a gun to my head saying I have to believe in what they believe in I can say yes to please them and not care one iota about it.

[Hairyloon 10]

I can choose when and what I believe in...

 

I don't believe you can.

If the balance of evidence is close then you have a choice, and if the evidence points to something you don't want to believe, then you can choose to ignore evidence (and sometimes that choice is subconscious).

 

Prove me wrong and choose to believe that the Earth is flat. You might say that you believe it, but really you know that it is not true.

 

---------- Post added 30-08-2017 at 19:33 ----------

 

Full employment and steady economic growth and a respect for democracy, are the surest antidotes to mass political extremism.

 

In order to have respect for democracy you must first have a democracy worthy of respect.