Gender Fluid etc, Opinions?

[WiseOwl182 10]

2 hours ago, Cyclone said:

How about them, I'm willing to look at any evidence you've got.

The thing is, your limited evidence doesn't cover what I've been talking about all along, i.e. the permanent, physical changes in puberty. For example, weight is a substantial advantage in tennis or netball. Less so in cycling or rowing.

 

 

[Guest makapaka]

2 hours ago, Cyclone said:

How about them, I'm willing to look at any evidence you've got.

Do you have a view? Or do you only put forward an opinion when it has been fully evidenced?

 

 

 

[Cyclone 10]

We have some evidence for several sports, so we should probably extrapolate from that until we have more sport specific evidence.  So at the moment, until shown otherwise, there appears to be no advantage and so trans women should be allowed to compete.

8 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

The thing is, your limited evidence doesn't cover what I've been talking about all along, i.e. the permanent, physical changes in puberty. For example, weight is a substantial advantage in tennis or netball. Less so in cycling or rowing.

 

 

So the evidence does cover it, you just don't think that those things would be an advantage in the sports studied.  So provide some more evidence.  Otherwise all you've got is a hypothesis at best.

[Yeah but 0]

Having men transitioning themselves into women through hormone therapy and surgery etc will have some very debatable mixed results and therefore is bound to compromise the integrity of female sport. Better to have a separate category for transgender people to compete with each other.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Yeah but

[Guest makapaka]

2 hours ago, Cyclone said:

We have some evidence for several sports, so we should probably extrapolate from that until we have more sport specific evidence.  So at the moment, until shown otherwise, there appears to be no advantage and so trans women should be allowed to compete.

So the evidence does cover it, you just don't think that those things would be an advantage in the sports studied.  So provide some more evidence.  Otherwise all you've got is a hypothesis at best.

So we have scientific fact that generally men have advantages in sport over women - but on the basis of the sample of people studied in running, rowing and cycling  you’re now satisfied that this has evidenced there is no advantage for transgender women across any sport?

[WiseOwl182 10]

7 hours ago, makapaka said:

So we have scientific fact that generally men have advantages in sport over women - but on the basis of the sample of people studied in running, rowing and cycling  you’re now satisfied that this has evidenced there is no advantage for transgender women across any sport?

Sounds like all he has is "a hypothesis at best".

[Bash Street 10]

Has this person been disqualified because she's a man purporting to be a woman, or is she a woman who just has too much testosterone, or what is the story?

[Cyclone 10]

On 03/05/2019 at 10:03, makapaka said:

So we have scientific fact that generally men have advantages in sport over women - but on the basis of the sample of people studied in running, rowing and cycling  you’re now satisfied that this has evidenced there is no advantage for transgender women across any sport?

The only evidence we have is that in the sports studied there is no advantage.

On 03/05/2019 at 09:20, Yeah but said:

Having men transitioning themselves into women through hormone therapy and surgery etc will have some very debatable mixed results and therefore is bound to compromise the integrity of female sport. Better to have a separate category for transgender people to compete with each other.

This is just flimflam, and ill informed at that.

On 03/05/2019 at 17:44, WiseOwl182 said:

Sounds like all he has is "a hypothesis at best".

Clearly not, we've got some limited evidence.  You've provided nothing but speculation.

[WiseOwl182 10]

33 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

 

Clearly not, we've got some limited evidence.  You've provided nothing but speculation.

You've got some very limited study that does not disprove my point.

[Cyclone 10]

And you've got nothing but speculation.

Oh, and "your point" became more specific after it was initially disproven.

[the_bloke 17]

In amongst the arguing in this thread over that sciencemag link, unless I am mistaken you've not picked up that the transgender athletes undertook hormone replacement therapy. So one assumes that they were not subject to having three times the testosterone levels of women they were competing against, unlike the case of Caster Semenya.

[Guest makapaka]

1 hour ago, Cyclone said:

The only evidence we have is that in the sports studied there is no advantage.

This is just flimflam, and ill informed at that.

Clearly not, we've got some limited evidence.  You've provided nothing but speculation.

So you are satisfied that this limited evidence is sufficient to allow transgender women to compete across all sports?