Anna B   1,365 #373 Posted June 7, 2018 Ah yes, always the ad hominem I see... Or perhaps it's more likley that they are not especially good at covering up. Occams razar and all that....  Oh please.... We would never have known about the MPs expenses scandal if it wasn't for some American reporter digging deep and coming up against all sorts of obstacles. Not least Speaker Michael Martin trying to invoke the Terrorism act.  We now have secret courts, and a self serving Establishment who control everything with almost limitless powers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #374 Posted June 7, 2018 LOL another totally out there one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
apelike   10 #375 Posted June 7, 2018 Oh please.... We would never have known about the MPs expenses scandal if it wasn't for some American reporter digging deep and coming up against all sorts of obstacles. Not least Speaker Michael Martin trying to invoke the Terrorism act.  You need to include Harriet Harman in that scandal as it was her that tried to get MP's expenses exempt from the Freedom of Information Act by proposing a rule change in Parliament. The motion failed which meant MP's expenses had to be disclosed highlighting she had also wrongly claimed expenses. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
redfox   10 #376 Posted June 8, 2018 Oh please.... We would never have known about the MPs expenses scandal if it wasn't for some American reporter digging deep and coming up against all sorts of obstacles. Not least Speaker Michael Martin trying to invoke the Terrorism act. We now have secret courts, and a self serving Establishment who control everything with almost limitless powers.   Can you tell me more about "secret courts" ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #377 Posted June 8, 2018 Can you tell me more about "secret courts" ? redfox can i ask a question? do you work in the court / law service? you seem to be very interested, and knowledgeable about the law and courts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
redfox   10 #378 Posted June 8, 2018 redfox can i ask a question? do you work in the court / law service? you seem to be very interested, and knowledgeable about the law and courts  Yes.  Hence my interest in these "secret courts" Anna has mentioned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
melthebell   862 #379 Posted June 8, 2018 Yes. Hence my interest in these "secret courts" Anna has mentioned.  ah, thought so, cheers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Anna B Â Â 1,365 #380 Posted June 8, 2018 Can you tell me more about "secret courts" ? Â https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jun/14/what-are-secret-courts Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Obelix   11 #381 Posted June 8, 2018 Oh please.... We would never have known about the MPs expenses scandal if it wasn't for some American reporter digging deep and coming up against all sorts of obstacles. Not least Speaker Michael Martin trying to invoke the Terrorism act. We now have secret courts, and a self serving Establishment who control everything with almost limitless powers.  Really? What are all these limitless powers then and why do people keep finding out so much about them then?  Your asseritons simply dont make sense Anna - either we have siome amazing Stasi like coverup goon squads, or we don't - and information leaks. With the rate it leaks I tend to favour the latter...  ---------- Post added 08-06-2018 at 12:54 ----------  https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jun/14/what-are-secret-courts  They are hardly secret if the Guardian knows about them are they....  In camera hearings are nothing new and have been occuring for decades for intelligence related hearings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
redfox   10 #382 Posted June 8, 2018 (edited) https://www.theguardian.com/law/2013/jun/14/what-are-secret-courts   They are not secret at all. There are specific procedures enacted by parliament to deal with very limited application and even more limited use.   You could try and read this - it is not quite what you think it is -  https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/664979/use-of-closed-material-procedure-2016-17-report.pdf  I have also found this -  "Secondly, a closed material procedure is a serious departure from the fundamental principles of open justice and natural justice: see Al Rawi v Security Service [2012] 1 AC 531 per Lord Dyson at paragraph 35; Bank Mellat v HM Treasury (No.2) [2014] AC 700 per Lord Neuberger at paragraphs 2 to 4; McGartland per Richards LJ at paragraph 34. It therefore requires careful scrutiny and caution before it is adopted. ... However it must also be borne in mind that the incursion into the principles of natural and open justice which is inherent in a closed material procedure is the price which Parliament has determined should be paid in appropriate cases because it falls to be balanced against the competing policy that cases which require disclosure of material which would damage national security should not for that reason be incapable of a trial at all.   Can I suggest Anna you do a little more research than rely on a long out of date report from the Guardian. Edited June 8, 2018 by redfox Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Robin-H   11 #383 Posted June 8, 2018 Oh please.... We would never have known about the MPs expenses scandal if it wasn't for some American reporter digging deep and coming up against all sorts of obstacles. Not least Speaker Michael Martin trying to invoke the Terrorism act. We now have secret courts, and a self serving Establishment who control everything with almost limitless powers.  Do you know what a 'secret court' is?  If you do, why do you think it's an issue? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Anna B Â Â 1,365 #384 Posted June 9, 2018 Do you know what a 'secret court' is? Â If you do, why do you think it's an issue? Â https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/16/the-terrifying-tale-of-how-britains-most-secret-court-imprisoned/ Â https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/jo-shaw/secret-courts-8-nightmare-scenarios-now-possible-in-britain-0 Â https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.uk/human-rights/justice-and-fair-trials/closed-courts-and-secret-evidence Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...