Sheffield businessman slates the unemployed

[Bargepole23 337]

Thats OK DerbyTup. I could understand why some people think I'm lying though. As it can sound a bit far fetched!

 

It must be nice to have skills that mean you never have to apply for jobs. Every job he had I think he was headhunted for.

 

Living very comfortably in retirement now on the South Coast.

 

There are lots of engineers working all over the world on long term contracts. I used to do exactly that myself. Year-long stints on site in India, South Korea, China amongst others, with living allowances, and great pay rates. All because of proficiency in certain industrial software packages, skills which are in demand.

 

It's good when you're young, especially when you can get tax-free status . I wouldn't go back to it now, but financially it set us up.

[Weazel2006 27]

I worked as an I.T technical manager for a charity for 2 years, helping lots of people. Ironically part of my job was to help people become job ready ( me being unemployed ) and help bolster their CV's, rewrite them, aim to get them some form of certificate etc.

 

Very few of those I worked with would be considered lazy, or unworthy of a position, in fact they often worked hard to meet orders, workload and would even volunteer for extra work on days they were not even due in.

 

They were on job seekers, income support or a silly 6 month contract (those things are simply not fit for purpose and seem to cause more problems then they solve). I have seen people with wages, salaries not work at a fifth of the pace with half the gusto as these people, yet society still deems them lazy, the truth is most of them are not given a chance.

 

 

Not one of these people would take a job like the one above, job security is not based on performance anymore but a company bottom line, which is often at the mercy of management is poorly managed making it impossible for targets to be met. It's not the employees that need training but the upper management.

 

We achieved great results by treating people as human beings, finding their strengths and promoting their personalities, but in the end none of it matters and more and more work is becoming seasonal, we also noticed a drop off of revenue when benefits were cut, go figure.

[chris101 10]

Think this guy is a con man just look at all the free publicity he's getting.

[Cyclone 10]

Taxman you best tell that to my Uncle who worked for MI5. He definitely wasn't allowed to tell me what he did.

 

If he really worked for SIS then he also wouldn't be allowed to tell you that he worked for them. Immediate family (ie spouse or parents) only, anyone else, you work for the MOD.

 

---------- Post added 15-08-2017 at 16:47 ----------

 

Thats OK DerbyTup. I could understand why some people think I'm lying though. As it can sound a bit far fetched!

 

It must be nice to have skills that mean you never have to apply for jobs. Every job he had I think he was headhunted for.

 

Living very comfortably in retirement now on the South Coast.

 

Lots of people work for MI5 obviously. You could go and hang about here and see them coming and going.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.494,-0.125167,3a,75y,260.55h,90.66t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNNxPFd1mdESQ5FnPa0gshIvvBnSdUyru8_TrxW!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNNxPFd1mdESQ5FnPa0gshIvvBnSdUyru8_TrxW%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya71.92328-ro-0-fo100!7i11700!8i5850

 

Or perhaps here

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4889456,-0.1328998,3a,15y,335.45h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjnkPO-1CNuh97z4VKX3rQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[Love2print 10]

If he really worked for SIS then he also wouldn't be allowed to tell you that he worked for them. Immediate family (ie spouse or parents) only, anyone else, you work for the MOD.

 

---------- Post added 15-08-2017 at 16:47 ----------

 

 

Lots of people work for MI5 obviously. You could go and hang about here and see them coming and going.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.494,-0.125167,3a,75y,260.55h,90.66t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipNNxPFd1mdESQ5FnPa0gshIvvBnSdUyru8_TrxW!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipNNxPFd1mdESQ5FnPa0gshIvvBnSdUyru8_TrxW%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-0-ya71.92328-ro-0-fo100!7i11700!8i5850

 

Or perhaps here

 

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4889456,-0.1328998,3a,15y,335.45h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjnkPO-1CNuh97z4VKX3rQw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

SIS is MI6 not MI5. Maybe he shouldn't have said, may it was my Aunt who let slip? Maybe the rules are different for MI5 and MI6? Also maybe it was because he wasnt an agent (spy)? With his background I'd imagine it was most likely programming software rather than gathering intelligence.

 

Don't think think he/she were lying. This was also many years ago now so my memory of what exactly was said might be blurred.

 

You can say obviously but not everyone imagines a place where a lot of day to day normal stuff goes along. They imagine James Bond.

[nowt2pctoday 10]

Think this guy is a con man just look at all the free publicity he's getting.

 

and how do you work that out??? just good business acumen not conning anyone, the only ones being conned are job seeker interviewers when they are explained to, why the applicant they sent didnt take the job:roll:

[apelike 10]

and how do you work that out??? just good business acumen not conning anyone, the only ones being conned are job seeker interviewers when they are explained to, why the applicant they sent didnt take the job:roll:

 

When you realise that this is almost an exact repeat of the same story of 1 year ago then you will also realise where the con is. The Star like stories like this and he is just repeating one from the past but somehow the Star failed to realise it. In any case he is complaining that people don't turn up for interviews and if a job-seeker did that then they would get sanctioned.

[Anna B 1,414]

Not sure when the competency thing came in but my husband was experience that last year job hunting.

 

Not in the applying stage, that was often still C.V.s but at interview stage. He said that interviews involved nothing about whether he was capable of doing the job or not but all about as you say "provide examples of" a time when...

 

What he didn't realise is that you have to answer the questions in a particular formula. It was only when he applied and did get an internal vacancy that he was told about the formula.

 

He reworded his answers and landed the next job he went for. Not sure how long he would have had to keep applying for had he not been told about the formula.

 

Shouldn't this sort of thing be taught in schools? And shouldn't schools stay up to date with the latest techniques and 'formula?' Employers need to get involved in this process too, and come in and talk to kids.

 

Likewise, are there still advice centres for people seeking work that can advise jobseekers on the current best ways to get a job, interview techniques etc? Particularly useful for those who haven't had to attend an interview for years. (Actually I thought it was mandatory to attend courses if getting employment was proving to be a problem.)

 

Or did all that die out with the farce that was A4e, to be replaced with simply battering the candidates with blame and shame.?

 

Getting a job these days seems to be unnecessarily complicated, and they still don't always end up with the best candidate.

 

If employers can't attract the right candidates, then they need to attend a course too, to find out what they're doing wrong, and see what it takes to be a decent employer.

[Cyclone 10]

SIS is MI6 not MI5. Maybe he shouldn't have said, may it was my Aunt who let slip? Maybe the rules are different for MI5 and MI6? Also maybe it was because he wasnt an agent (spy)? With his background I'd imagine it was most likely programming software rather than gathering intelligence.

 

Don't think think he/she were lying. This was also many years ago now so my memory of what exactly was said might be blurred.

 

You can say obviously but not everyone imagines a place where a lot of day to day normal stuff goes along. They imagine James Bond.

 

Got me on the SIS reference, trying to be too clever

But no, programmers, analysts, project managers, even the tea boy, working for MI5 should only tell immediate family who they work for.

Perhaps it was different 20/30 years ago if that's the time frame you're thinking of though.

[sgtkate 10]

Shouldn't this sort of thing be taught in schools? And shouldn't schools stay up to date with the latest techniques and 'formula?' Employers need to get involved in this process too, and come in and talk to kids.

 

Likewise, are there still advice centres for people seeking work that can advise jobseekers on the current best ways to get a job, interview techniques etc? Particularly useful for those who haven't had to attend an interview for years. (Actually I thought it was mandatory to attend courses if getting employment was proving to be a problem.)

 

Or did all that die out with the farce that was A4e, to be replaced with simply battering the candidates with blame and shame.?

 

Getting a job these days seems to be unnecessarily complicated, and they still don't always end up with the best candidate.

 

If employers can't attract the right candidates, then they need to attend a course too, to find out what they're doing wrong, and see what it takes to be a decent employer.

 

There isn't a formula! Each employer and possibly even interviewer will be looking for different things. However, most interviews I have done will hope and expect a candidate to be able to articulate the hows and the whys of an answer rather than just 'I did this'. Most employers would expect the same as it gives a much deeper insight into the person, how they work, how the think and if they'd be a good fit into your team.

 

An example would be a question like: 'give me an example of when you had a problem you didn't know how to fix'. If someone just said 'I didn't know an excel formula' that would be a poor answer. I'd be expecting them to give something more like: 'I was working on an excel spreadsheet to show profit and loss, and I realised I didn't know the right syntax for a formula I needed. I asked a colleague who was more experienced than me but he didn't know either so I went to Microsofts website and found the correct syntax. I used this in my spreadsheet and it worked. I then decided to send an email to my team explaining this formula as I thought it would be useful for all of them.'

 

Clearly that's a silly example, but that's what most interviewers would expect in my experience. It's called SOARA or STAR: https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-star-interview-response-technique-2061629

Ultimately, if you've got to an interview then you've got the right skills and experience on paper so the interviewer will only want to confirm you haven't lied on your CV by asking a few technical or subject specific questions before trying to assess your character, hence the 'formula'. If schools aren't teaching this then clearly something isn't quite right...

[Love2print 10]

Got me on the SIS reference, trying to be too clever

But no, programmers, analysts, project managers, even the tea boy, working for MI5 should only tell immediate family who they work for.

Perhaps it was different 20/30 years ago if that's the time frame you're thinking of though.

 

Around 97/98/99. Worked on a contract for a maximum of 3 years I would say. Long time ago and he did a lot of contract work so moved jobs a lot.

 

There isn't a formula! Each employer and possibly even interviewer will be looking for different things. However, most interviews I have done will hope and expect a candidate to be able to articulate the hows and the whys of an answer rather than just 'I did this'. Most employers would expect the same as it gives a much deeper insight into the person, how they work, how the think and if they'd be a good fit into your team.

 

An example would be a question like: 'give me an example of when you had a problem you didn't know how to fix'. If someone just said 'I didn't know an excel formula' that would be a poor answer. I'd be expecting them to give something more like: 'I was working on an excel spreadsheet to show profit and loss, and I realised I didn't know the right syntax for a formula I needed. I asked a colleague who was more experienced than me but he didn't know either so I went to Microsofts website and found the correct syntax. I used this in my spreadsheet and it worked. I then decided to send an email to my team explaining this formula as I thought it would be useful for all of them.'

 

Clearly that's a silly example, but that's what most interviewers would expect in my experience. It's called SOARA or STAR: https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-the-star-interview-response-technique-2061629

Ultimately, if you've got to an interview then you've got the right skills and experience on paper so the interviewer will only want to confirm you haven't lied on your CV by asking a few technical or subject specific questions before trying to assess your character, hence the 'formula'. If schools aren't teaching this then clearly something isn't quite right...

 

That it what I meant when I said formula but I couldn't remember what it was called.

 

My husband had never heard of STAR and neither had I until last year. His employer said gave him a copy of the formula, maybe the same as what you linked to, quoted here for reference:

 

"Situation: Describe the context within which you performed a job or faced a challenge at work. For example, perhaps you were working on a group project, or you had a conflict with a coworker.

 

This situation can be from a work experience, a volunteer position, or any other relevant event. Be as specific as possible.

 

Task: Next, describe your responsibility in that situation. Perhaps you had to help your group complete a project under a tight deadline, or resolve a conflict with a coworker.

 

Action: You then describe how you completed the task or endeavored to meet the challenge. Focus on what you did, rather than what your team, boss, or coworker did.

 

Result: Finally, explain the outcomes or results generated by the action taken. You might emphasize what you accomplished, or what you learned."

 

He was answering the questions too straight without telling the story behind it. Once he realised that he need to give the answer in STAR format he got the next job he applied for. The actually backbone to the answer was the same he just worded the response differently to match STAR.

 

STAR or anything similar is something I had never heard of when leaving school, or throughout college. Neither had my husband. He hadn't been job hunting for a long time. He had worked for the same employer for 17 years since he was 17.

[Cyclone 10]

I'd never heard of that acronym until now, but it's obvious that a potential employer wants more than just a few words for an answer right?

"Tell me about a situation at work that you found difficult"

"Well, the last project I was on had some tricky technical stuff"...

Or "I didn't get on with my direct line manager"...

 

They just beg the question, yes, and? So what. What did you do, did it work, what did you learn? So just answer them without forcing the interviewer to ask.

 

And don't be afraid to say you don't know either, some people will try to flim flam their way through things, "Do you know about technology X?" if you don't, say so. Perhaps add that you'd like to learn, if it's true. Don't be scared to have an opinion though, I get asked about extreme programming and pair programming and TDD, honestly I don't like them that much, so I say so, and I can explain why. And I'd rather not get the job if that's how they work, it doesn't suit me.