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Public sector pay

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My son trained to be a fireman at the age of 30, my daughter became a nurse at the age of 32, her other half became a police officer at 35, my wife got a job in a school at the age of 40, none of them did their training while at school ;)

 

 

I'm sure the emoji means you understand the point I was making (but that is just an inference, rather than being clearly understood from what you've written).

 

I don't know about fire or police officers, but I know nursing needs a degree (or it does now, and has done for quite a few years).

Would your daughter have got that degree if she didn't have GCSE's, A-Levels, or the appropriate equivalent (given that I don't know the timeframe or other details about her), which she would have got at school?

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Got any evidence it isn't true?

 

 

Will you accept newspaper evidence? :)

 

---------- Post added 22-07-2017 at 18:09 ----------

 

I have not seen a single response on this thread where someone has argued that the public sector is paid too much. The argument is the public sector is paid more than the private sector and the ONS and IFS back this up.

 

There are many more manual jobs in the private sector where you are not allowed to retire early. Your argument that who would be a firefighter in their 60's is easily countered with who would be a bricklayer, North sea fisherman, lumberjack, oilrig worker, miner, farmer in their 60's? Many do, but there are also other roles people can play in the public sector that are not as physically demanding too. Early retirement is also not exclusive to the physical jobs either.

 

The public sector is paid on average a higher hourly rate than the private sector.

The public sector has by far better pension provision for its workers.

The public sector in addition offers early retirement to a large number of employees.

 

Above is the most sensible post on this thread, it doesn't mention the generous sick leave in the public sector but hey ho.

 

Having been quite vocal on this topic, I wonder if this situation is the last big inequality in Britain? All other aspects of our lives have equality but not like for like in the workplace it seems.

Now I don't take the opinion that public sector jobs in the main are overpaid (possibly odd council jobs are money for old rope but good luck to them) I do feel though, that we should all have the same occupational pension rights and the security of sick leave at the same level. Now how that could be introduced is the problem, would it mean public sector reductions or private sector increases?

Remember when women got the same retirement status as men? !!

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I am pleased someone has mentioned the generous sick leave the public sector get. Although this is a few years ago it was disgusting when some of my friends who worked in local government and Sheffield council would take 6 months sick leave a year with full pay because they could. It did not stop them going out to socialise, paid for by the tax payer.

Not sure if it is the same now or if more checks are made on people who constantly milk the system.

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I am pleased someone has mentioned the generous sick leave the public sector get. Although this is a few years ago it was disgusting when some of my friends who worked in local government and Sheffield council would take 6 months sick leave a year with full pay because they could. It did not stop them going out to socialise, paid for by the tax payer.

Not sure if it is the same now or if more checks are made on people who constantly milk the system.

 

I don't think you were ever able to just take 6 months off sick. Doctor sign off after a week and then it has to be pretty serious to go the full 6 months. Just because they're your mates it doesn't mean they have told you everything about why they're off.

 

If they're off for mental health reasons then going out and socialising might be exactly what the doctor ordered.

 

The only time I ever saw that sort of time taken off was someone who had their hip and leg bolted back together after a very bad accident. Even then, they were tooled up with a laptop and office mobile pretty quick to work from home.

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The problem with public sector austerity is that it was given to public sector managers to enact. Who are they going to sack, themselves and their chums? Or people lower down the food chain?

 

A breakdown of the numbers of people made redundant by grade would be useful but I don't suppose we will ever get it.

 

I was made redundant from a public sector body nearly seven years since. At that time the department had 5 major management posts; it has them still. Not one post has been deleted. They got rid of project managers and then a couple of years later had to replace them. Brought in outside experts to transform the department and didn't manage to. Majorly messed up their calculations of how much it would cost to make people redundant and then created more junior managers posts than we had before.

 

It was and is an utter shambles.

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I am pleased someone has mentioned the generous sick leave the public sector get. Although this is a few years ago it was disgusting when some of my friends who worked in local government and Sheffield council would take 6 months sick leave a year with full pay because they could. It did not stop them going out to socialise, paid for by the tax payer.

Not sure if it is the same now or if more checks are made on people who constantly milk the system.

 

Although austerity is the Conservatives way of reducing Government debt, I dont think any Conservative councils have a different way of reducing sick pay.

As I have said before, it said be reduced to 80%-90% of pay.

But the bosses go on sick too, maybe that is why they dont want to tackle the issue.

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I don't think you were ever able to just take 6 months off sick. Doctor sign off after a week and then it has to be pretty serious to go the full 6 months. Just because they're your mates it doesn't mean they have told you everything about why they're off.

 

If they're off for mental health reasons then going out and socialising might be exactly what the doctor ordered.

 

The only time I ever saw that sort of time taken off was someone who had their hip and leg bolted back together after a very bad accident. Even then, they were tooled up with a laptop and office mobile pretty quick to work from home.

 

Yes they are if they know how to play it. bad back for eg. just keep telling the GP it is no better. Anxiety is another, tell the GP you can't cope with the stress at work and the managers will be so terrified they will let you milk it.

 

I have friends that have used both those, the bad back one went to Alton Towers with a gang of us while off for months :-))

 

The best trick I have seen though is going for a sick note on the first day holidays, that way you get double paid holidays !!! Ya gotta laugh.

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Yes they are if they know how to play it. bad back for eg. just keep telling the GP it is no better. Anxiety is another, tell the GP you can't cope with the stress at work and the managers will be so terrified they will let you milk it.

 

I have friends that have used both those, the bad back one went to Alton Towers with a gang of us while off for months :-))

 

The best trick I have seen though is going for a sick note on the first day holidays, that way you get double paid holidays !!! Ya gotta laugh.

 

If your friends are 'cheating the system' why don't you shop them? Its your taxes after all, or why don't you take them to task yourself? Instead of laughing it off? You wouldn't laugh it off if a mate nicked your car or committed credit card fraud with your card.

 

Or do they genuinely have back problems or issues at work with anxiety? Are you assuming that bad back means paralysed and therefore being off work with this means in a hospital bed? Do you think anxiety means they should be heavily sedated in a white coat?

 

If its such a cushy number why dont you apply for a job? Or is it that deep down you know that the working conditions just aren't that simple, and you know that you probably couldn't cope with working in an environment where the goalposts constantly move and you can still be heavily chastised and threatened for following every rule and exceeding every target? Where you're constantly blamed for every decision made by elected representatives?

 

Its easy isn't it? Go on, join the public sector, show us how its done.

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You are completely missing the point. They are exploiting the rules rather than defrauding the system. How many self employed people go to work if they feel tired one morning or just a bit under the weather? I know public sector workers who ring in sick for all sorts of silly things because it doesn't impact them financially or in any other way. If we all did that the country would grind to a halt.

 

As far as me joining the public sector, well it is for a certain kind of person if I'm honest. and I am not one of them. I know this because I once gave it a go. I took a post doing the same job as I do commercially, I was bored stiff. When I tried to streamline the workflow and work efficiently I met with hostility (that's probably too strong a word) from those who had been there years.

The situation was that there was not nearly enough work for the amount of people and for me the days dragged. If you were seen doing nothing (which was impossible to avoid) questions were asked. The trick I was told was to always have a list in your pocket, then you could always wave it and say "I'm just collecting names for.......".

 

That situation is NOT in every aspect of public service, and I'm sure it is rare, but in my profession it is the norm.

 

Prior to that, four out of the five people I was working with had come from the public sector, they warned me what it was like and that it was boring.

 

Give me a fair days work for a fair days pay anytime.

 

I'll say it again, my situation is not typical of all public sector jobs, I am not here to knock them just to point out the differences in working practice.

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I have friends that have used both those, the bad back one went to Alton Towers with a gang of us while off for months :-))

 

The best trick I have seen though is going for a sick note on the first day holidays, that way you get double paid holidays !!! Ya gotta laugh.

 

When I worked in the public sector after six months sick leave in twelve you went on to half pay. It's true about the holidays though, if you were off sick for six months you still retained the same number of days holiday. So it was possible to be on the sick for four months and then go on holiday for another month, which I saw happen.

 

Also if you got yourself classified as disabled you were guaranteed an interview for a job that you applied for (and met the essential criteria). We got one bloke who said that he was dyslexic, which was a disability, hence he was disabled. He wasn't, he just couldn't spell.

 

I have a million stories about people who swing the lead or take the proverbial, and they're all true. Possibly my favourite was the man who was "too ill" to drive into work, so one of his team mates gave him a lift every morning. He then went on a camping holiday to the south of France - and drove all the way there and back. Nothing was done about it.

 

Or maybe the one about the bloke working from home. He was rung up on his works mobile; his wife answered and said he couldn't answer the phone as he was driving her into work.

 

It all comes down to management in the end. Ours was abysmal, they let some people get away with murder.

Edited by Harrystottle

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Everything people on here say about the public sector, be it holidays, pensions, time off sick, boring jobs, stultifying culture, can be found in the private sector too.

 

There is no magic line you cross when going from one side to the other.

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Everything people on here say about the public sector, be it holidays, pensions, time off sick, boring jobs, stultifying culture, can be found in the private sector too.

 

There is no magic line you cross when going from one side to the other.

 

No but you do understand what on average means right? If you do, you must, in turn understand when the ONS or IFS say "on average" people in the public sector are paid more than the private, it's pretty hard for people to get too agitated about public sector pay rises being only 1%.

 

Oh and your signature appears to be misleading. The Tories attacked the then Labour government on the Deficit, not the Debt. It was this they pledged to reduce, which they have. Unless you have a source for your "quote".

Edited by Berberis

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