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The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

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What you should really have asked is why many British steelmakers in times of crisis could not be helped (bailed out) out financially by UK governments.

 

The EU does not allow state support of a business if it would distort competition in the single market (rules we had a say in implementing), though there are exceptions which can be used (and have been by the French and Italians) to provide state aid.

 

The previous Labour government was about to give Sheffield steel producer Foragemasters an £80m loan to develop new technologies as part of a supply chain for nuclear reactors, but they lost the election to the Tories in May 2010. The new Tory government withdrew this offer, the reasoning for a change of heart was ideological and not related to European State-Aid rules.

 

So yes it is possible, you just have to have a competant and willing government.

 

Is it because the EU forbids it or the UK government cant be bothered?

 

Clearly, UK government cant be bothered!

 

Then, as a nice extra slap in the face, the UK government is/was trying to water down proposed EU duties for Chineese steel, further hurting the domestic steel market:-

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/is-uk-calling-for-lower-eu-duties-chinese-steel/

"European Commission plans to raise duties haven’t been supported by Britain"

 

Now can you see where this is going.. :D

 

I think I can.. yes :)

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 09:36 ----------

 

Sajid Javid torpedoed protection plans in the EC himself, then came back, saw it went wrong and then cried wolf about the EU...

 

Pretty much this. The standard "blame the EU for UK backstabbing/failures" line....

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No.

 

 

 

Then you are wrong and should try doing some proper research instead of taking a guess. :roll:;)

 

What you should really have asked is why many British steelmakers in times of crisis could not be helped (bailed out) out financially by UK governments. Is it because the EU forbids it or the UK government cant be bothered?

 

Now can you see where this is going.. :D

 

I can’t help but say this. You’re an idiot.

 

When the steel industry was on its knees a couple of years ago along with the rest of the steel makers of Europe who were also having great difficulty, the EU actually tried to help. The EU wanted to introduce harsh anti dumping tariffs on all Chinese steel coming into the EU market.

 

Want a guess which government vetoed this approach? I’ll give you a clue, they wanted to protect Hinkley Point C.

 

Of course it was the EU who wanted to collapse our steel industry. Oh wait....

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---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 09:18 ----------

 

Wow, you still believe this one?

 

According to the BBC from 2016 on the steel crisis: "EU rules also restrict how much support governments can give to particular industries. Member states may not use public funds to rescue failing steelmakers. However, EU countries are allowed to boost steel firms' global competitiveness - for instance by funding research and development or helping with high energy bills."

 

Sajid Javid torpedoed protection plans in the EC himself, then came back, saw it went wrong and then cried wolf about the EU...

 

This was publicly outed in countless newsstories, try googling his name and ‘the price of shoes’.

 

Javid may have done that but it still does not alter the fact that the EU restricts how governments can support industries.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 14:03 ----------

 

So yes it is possible, you just have to have a competant and willing government.

 

Who has to abide by EU rules and in the case of Forge-masters was allowed to under research and development, and not because they were a failing company.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 14:12 ----------

 

I can’t help but say this. You’re an idiot.

 

I cant help say this, I'm not bothered what you think as all it shows is a childish mentality on your part.

 

When the steel industry was on its knees a couple of years ago along with the rest of the steel makers of Europe who were also having great difficulty, the EU actually tried to help. The EU wanted to introduce harsh anti dumping tariffs on all Chinese steel coming into the EU market.

 

But they didn't change their rules on using public funds to bail out failing steelmakers which is what I have stated. Now how many British Stainless Steel manufacturers are there.. Oh hang on..

 

Quote by ez8004:

 

"I knew the answer is none."

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According to the BBC from 2016 on the steel crisis: "EU rules also restrict how much support governments can give to particular industries. Member states may not use public funds to rescue failing steelmakers. However, EU countries are allowed to boost steel firms' global competitiveness - for instance by funding research and development or helping with high energy bills."

 

Javid may have done that but it still does not alter the fact that the EU restricts how governments can support industries.

 

Did Javid give subsidy for energy bills? exclude the steel makers from the renewable energy levies like the Germans did? Did the UK encourage stronger R&D? Did the UK protect steel from suffering from the Chinese dumping their steel at below cost?

 

All the EU restricts is direct subsidy. The UK had a whole arsenal of options available and deployed none, why? Because they weren't interested. All they were interested in was telling the British that the EU was responsible for rampant capitalism. And you bought it, like a good little Brit should.

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But they didn't change their rules on using public funds to bail out failing steelmakers which is what I have stated. Now how many British Stainless Steel manufacturers are there.. Oh hang on..

Given the UK government's record of failing to do things EU rules allow them to do, do you think they'd have used public funds to bail out failing UK steel makers if they had been allowed to?

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Who has to abide by EU rules and in the case of Forge-masters was allowed to under research and development, and not because they were a failing company.

 

The reason the companies are failing is because they can't compete.

 

When tarrifs were proposed by the EU to level the playing field so they could, the UK government objected.

 

They've had plenty of opportunity to help the steel industry (energy subsidies for example), but aren't interested.

 

No matter how you paint it, the problem here is the UK government, not the EU.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 17:24 ----------

 

Given the UK government's record of failing to do things EU rules allow them to do, do you think they'd have used public funds to bail out failing UK steel makers if they had been allowed to?

 

Not this government no, it's not part of their ideology.

Edited by Magilla

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Howdy chaps n chapettes :wave:

 

'Been away a week, meeting with my future employers on t'continent and winding down some, and I must admit the break from all things Brexity was quite welcome :)

 

What's the word, then? Brexit wing growers still calling for a no-deal exit?

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Does Jacob Rees Mogg make a good point here?

 

https://youtu.be/SC2DUy-WoGY

 

No, it'll take the EU a couple of years to recover from the loss of 20 billion pounds, a year if they try.

 

The man makes about as much sense on this topic as when he says that raped women shouldn't be allowed abortion.

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Howdy chaps n chapettes :wave:

 

'Been away a week, meeting with my future employers on t'continent and winding down some, and I must admit the break from all things Brexity was quite welcome :)

 

What's the word, then? Brexit wing growers still calling for a no-deal exit?

 

Ey up L00b - I did ask someone on here where you had gone but they didn't bother to respond.

 

A no-deal Brexit? Never gonna happen unless war is declared.

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Howdy chaps n chapettes :wave:

 

'Been away a week, meeting with my future employers on t'continent and winding down some, and I must admit the break from all things Brexity was quite welcome :)

 

What's the word, then? Brexit wing growers still calling for a no-deal exit?

 

well, we had some great tips from the brexiters on how to live like a peasant by rummaging through the clearance aisles at your local supermarket for expired food items.

 

Another great tip was to grow your own food, a great idea for people in terraced houses like the ones round here, where the front door opens on to a busy and heavily-polluted A road.

 

Finally, our EU-handout loving British farmers will pick up the slack by growing all the food we can't import. Just a shame there will be no immigrants left to pick the food.

 

But I'm sure BoJo the Clown and Sir Nige' have a backup plan to shield us from the inevitable drop in living standards.

 

So yes, it's all looking rosy down here :)

Edited by The Joker

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If we’re on WTO rules then the tariffs for some goods are actually quite sizeable, and even in a Norway-style relationship there is latitude for punitive tariffs on a range of goods - look at how Norway protects its cheese industry(277% tariffs). WTO makes that behaviour even easier, and allows the USA as an example to put a 300% tariff on planes made in the UK.

 

You don’t have a clue about:

1. How this works to begin with

2. The scenarios that could play out

 

Not sure about Norwegian cheese, but hay ho, they will just have to eat there own, the US and planes, were there not Billions in subs, given to their production. which the US tried to equalize with the tariffs. However, I see you fall back to default statements to antagonize people like you don't have a clue, nice one speaks more of your attitude than mine.

Edited by phil752

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