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The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

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But, as article 50 has been triggered, are the EU obligated to let us back in?

 

Can they force us to leave?

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Can they force us to leave?

 

We've left. The relationship is over. All we've got to do now is give the keys and the mix tapes back. I thought that was the point of article 50. We signed it because we meant it. Now they might let us back in after we begged them and changed our ways, but there will be new rules. No out with the lads every night, no leaving the toilet seat up - no rebate.

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Can they force us to leave?

 

It would be entirely down to the 27 EU members.

 

If they were happy to have us back and felt that our reversing our decision was sufficient proof that we would now become committed to the Union, then maybe.

 

On the other hand, they might wish to make a point and extract a penalty for the disruption we've caused. In which case they might insist that we adopt the Euro and sign up to Schengen before allowing us back in.

 

The thing being that we are totally at the mercy of the EU current members when it comes to what happens from now on, in or out.

 

Before some Brexiteer jumps in with " what a terrible people they are, and why would we want to be members of such a vindictive organization " try to think it through first.

 

We signed up for membership after wanting to join and applying to join for some time. We were economically ' The sick man of Europe ' when we were accepted as members.

 

As members we have prospered, despite which our media has tended toward the derogatory when it comes to commentating on the EU.

 

Why would the other 27 be sympathetic to our wishes?

 

Some are, some aren't, and the problem we have when it comes to the final agreement is that all 27 have to ratify it and sign off on it.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwicgpid1L7VAhVlLsAKHcFRBdAQFghHMAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.instituteforgovernment.org.uk%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fpublications%2F5040%2520IFG%2520-%2520Negotiating%2520Brexit%2520v4.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGZjsK49IPeiypK07JDcXO56FguZA

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So far however, not one Brexiteer has been able to come up with any facts explaining why it is a good idea to leave...

 

I beg to differ.

I have accepted that the Common Agriculture Policy is enough of a mess that it provides a good reason, and also the fact that it is driving down house prices.

I'll accept that the house prices may also be a good idea not to leave, and I should perhaps add that I am not maintaining a list of reasons to not leave because it would be too much work, but to say that not one reason has been given is false.

 

---------- Post added 05-08-2017 at 00:24 ----------

 

It's questionable whether the result should continue to be respected...

 

It should be given all due respect, but "respect" is not synonymous with following blindly.

 

---------- Post added 05-08-2017 at 00:28 ----------

 

maybe, the treaties are unclear as to whether we can untrigger article 50

 

The EU has a simple choice: it can either accept our retraction, or they can fight us in court as to whether they can refuse to accept it.

If you consider for even a moment how complex and ridiculous such a court case would be, then they would clearly have to be utter fools to go there.

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We've left. The relationship is over. All we've got to do now is give the keys and the mix tapes back. I thought that was the point of article 50. We signed it because we meant it. Now they might let us back in after we begged them and changed our ways, but there will be new rules. No out with the lads every night, no leaving the toilet seat up - no rebate.

 

No rebate, no opt outs, membership of Schengen and membership of the Euro.

Plus taking our regular quota of "migrants" every year. And no answering back; at all.

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I beg to differ.

I have accepted that the Common Agriculture Policy is enough of a mess that it provides a good reason, and also the fact that it is driving down house prices.

I'll accept that the house prices may also be a good idea not to leave, and I should perhaps add that I am not maintaining a list of reasons to not leave because it would be too much work, but to say that not one reason has been given is false.

 

The CAP might well be a mess, but that isn't really an excuse to leave since without us the CAP will still be a mess and what we're going to end up with is a bigger mess.

 

Driving down house prices might be a good thing for those who want to buy, but too large a drop will leave those who have to sell facing negative equity.

 

---------- Post added 05-08-2017 at 08:25 ----------

 

No rebate, no opt outs, membership of Schengen and membership of the Euro.

Plus taking our regular quota of "migrants" every year. And no answering back; at all.

 

i think you are being rather negative there.

 

In the overall scheme of things being Schengen might not be that bad. I seem to recall the main reason we didn't go into it at the start was basically to do with the Nothern Ireland. Given they are ended then I don't see why we shouldn't join.

 

Membership of the Euro, requires some internal fiscal criteria which I doubt we would meet. They might want us to commit to joining the Euro at some point in the future, but really that's not much different from the situation pre-referendum.

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We've left. The relationship is over. All we've got to do now is give the keys and the mix tapes back. I thought that was the point of article 50. We signed it because we meant it. Now they might let us back in after we begged them and changed our ways, but there will be new rules. No out with the lads every night, no leaving the toilet seat up - no rebate.

 

We haven't left. Not by a very long way.

 

---------- Post added 05-08-2017 at 09:13 ----------

 

The CAP might well be a mess, but that isn't really an excuse to leave since without us the CAP will still be a mess and what we're going to end up with is a bigger mess.

 

Driving down house prices might be a good thing for those who want to buy, but too large a drop will leave those who have to sell facing negative equity.

 

---------- Post added 05-08-2017 at 08:25 ----------

 

 

i think you are being rather negative there.

 

In the overall scheme of things being Schengen might not be that bad. I seem to recall the main reason we didn't go into it at the start was basically to do with the Nothern Ireland. Given they are ended then I don't see why we shouldn't join.

 

Membership of the Euro, requires some internal fiscal criteria which I doubt we would meet. They might want us to commit to joining the Euro at some point in the future, but really that's not much different from the situation pre-referendum.

 

Very true about the Euro. We are decades away from meeting the convergence criteria

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And another Brexit wake up call:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/05/brexit-could-leave-britain-with-a-bare-larder-farmers-warn

 

 

 

 

The NFU plea came as 14 farming organisations, including the British Poultry Council, the Soil Association and the Country Land and Business Association, set out a list of Brexit demands.

 

They too want the government to manage the risk of Brexit and stay within the customs union during a transition period. They also want “a fully functioning immigration system” that recognises the reliance food producers have on EU workforces beyond the harvest season.

 

Raymond said the NFU also wanted the government to stop viewing these workers as unskilled but rather as highly competent workers on whom the food growing and packing industry relied.

Edited by chalga

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And another Brexit wake up call:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/aug/05/brexit-could-leave-britain-with-a-bare-larder-farmers-warn

 

 

 

 

The NFU plea came as 14 farming organisations, including the British Poultry Council, the Soil Association and the Country Land and Business Association, set out a list of Brexit demands.

 

They too want the government to manage the risk of Brexit and stay within the customs union during a transition period. They also want “a fully functioning immigration system” that recognises the reliance food producers have on EU workforces beyond the harvest season.

 

Raymond said the NFU also wanted the government to stop viewing these workers as unskilled but rather as highly competent workers on whom the food growing and packing industry relied.

 

As the comments say, no problem we're going to be eating sovereignty and unicorn eggs.

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As the comments say, no problem we're going to be eating sovereignty and unicorn eggs.

 

Actually, I think the outcome will be lots and lots of fields covered in solar panels.

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I beg to differ.

I have accepted that the Common Agriculture Policy is enough of a mess that it provides a good reason, and also the fact that it is driving down house prices.

I'll accept that the house prices may also be a good idea not to leave, and I should perhaps add that I am not maintaining a list of reasons to not leave because it would be too much work, but to say that not one reason has been given is false.

 

---------- Post added 05-08-2017 at 00:24 ----------

 

 

 

---------- Post added 05-08-2017 at 00:28 ----------

 

 

 

My point was that no Brexiteer had been able to come up with any facts explaining why it was a good idea to leave the most successful Trade Bloc in the World.

 

We can all come up with things we don't agree with regarding the EU.

 

It's a political construction, it's not perfect, we get that, but the benefits of being a member far outweigh the baseless imagined dreams of the Brexiteers which have no reality to support them.

 

The reasons Brexiteers gave for voting Leave have no substance to them.

 

Immigration;

Over 50% of immigrants are from outside the EU, completely the responsibility of the British government.

 

Taking Back Control;

Whilst members of the European market we have waged war with Argentina, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and held a parliamentary debate as to whether or not to go to war with Syria. We declined to join the Euro or sign up for Schengen. Robust examples of sovereignty.

 

What exact measure of control do the Brexiteers want?

 

Not being constrained by EU regulations and being able to agree trade deals with any country.

 

If we are so successful as traders that we are being constrained by the EU how is it that four EU fellow members are better than us at trade?

 

The fact is that anyone who thought it out rationally would come to the conclusion that although the EU is far from perfect it is a positive contributor to our wellbeing and in order to sort out it's problems we would be only able to do it as members.

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