The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[hackey lad 3,963]

Funny how they accidentally voted to join an even more capitalist club but are too thick to realise that is what they went for.

 

'Sheffield Wednesday will never be champions! I know, I am going to support Stockbridge Park Steels!' but then in reverse.

 

Voted for Remain , all educated ,clever people . Voted for Leave, all uneducated ,thick people . All I can say is that its a shame that all the educated , clever people didn't go out and vote in the referendum . If they did we wouldn't be here now

[phil752 10]

I'll just leave this here.

 

I don't get your point.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 00:16 ----------

 

I don’t think people really want to be dragged down to enforced frugal living. They won’t accept it. What makes you think they will?

 

Again we seem to be returning to this theme of punishing middle class people for doing well. You’ve got to be very careful with that. Extremely careful and should be mindful that hollowing out of the middle class is a key neoliberal goal.

 

---------- Post added 27-10-2017 at 07:11 ----------

 

 

What do you mean by ‘charge’?

 

EU tariffs and quotas

[apelike 10]

Still have trouble reading.

 

No.

 

If you look back at my original question, I asked which BRITISH steelmaker can make stainless steel.

 

I knew the answer is none, which was why I asked

 

Then you are wrong and should try doing some proper research instead of taking a guess.

 

What you should really have asked is why many British steelmakers in times of crisis could not be helped (bailed out) out financially by UK governments. Is it because the EU forbids it or the UK government cant be bothered?

 

Now can you see where this is going..

Edited October 29, 2017 by apelike

[El Cid 216]

What you should really have asked is why many British steelmakers in times of crisis could not be helped (bailed out) out financially by UK governments. Is it because the EU forbids it or the UK government cant be bothered?

 

Now can you see where this is going..

 

A package of support worth hundreds of millions of pounds will be made available to potential buyers of Tata Steel UK.

21 April 2016

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-outlines-details-of-financial-support-for-tata-steel-uk-buyers

[tzijlstra 11]

Over 17 million people are "thick"?

 

Incredible.

 

Simply because they voted in a different way to you?

 

This arrogant and elitist attitude is perhaps one reason why so many ordinary decent people voted against the Brussels capitalist club.

 

Better off out.

 

Funny diversionary tactic there Car Boot, I didn’t say all Leave voters were thick, I said those thinking capitalism would now magically go away are thick. You’ve been told, by the government, repeatedly, that Brexit is about opening more markets, about free trade with India, the US and so on.

 

I’m not even sorry to say that if you can’t see how the UK will lose protection of worker’s rights by leaving the EU, you are thick.

 

PS being thick is nothing to do with education or class, I know professors who are brilliantly in their area and clueless in most other.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 09:18 ----------

 

No.

 

 

 

Then you are wrong and should try doing some proper research instead of taking a guess.

 

What you should really have asked is why many British steelmakers in times of crisis could not be helped (bailed out) out financially by UK governments. Is it because the EU forbids it or the UK government cant be bothered?

 

Now can you see where this is going..

 

Wow, you still believe this one? Sajid Javid torpedoed protection plans in the EC himself, then came back, saw it went wrong and then cried wolf about the EU...

 

This was publicly outed in countless newsstories, try googling his name and ‘the price of shoes’.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 09:20 ----------

 

I don't get your point.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 00:16 ----------

 

 

EU tariffs and quotas

 

Britain is getting more and more billionaires, income inequality is rising in Britain with working people getting less and less.

Edited October 29, 2017 by tzijlstra

[I1L2T3 10]

I don't get your point.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 00:16 ----------

 

 

EU tariffs and quotas

 

If we’re on WTO rules then the tariffs for some goods are actually quite sizeable, and even in a Norway-style relationship there is latitude for punitive tariffs on a range of goods - look at how Norway protects its cheese industry(277% tariffs). WTO makes that behaviour even easier, and allows the USA as an example to put a 300% tariff on planes made in the UK.

 

You don’t have a clue about:

1. How this works to begin with

2. The scenarios that could play out

Edited October 29, 2017 by I1L2T3

[Magilla 510]

What you should really have asked is why many British steelmakers in times of crisis could not be helped (bailed out) out financially by UK governments.

 

The EU does not allow state support of a business if it would distort competition in the single market (rules we had a say in implementing), though there are exceptions which can be used (and have been by the French and Italians) to provide state aid.

 

The previous Labour government was about to give Sheffield steel producer Foragemasters an £80m loan to develop new technologies as part of a supply chain for nuclear reactors, but they lost the election to the Tories in May 2010. The new Tory government withdrew this offer, the reasoning for a change of heart was ideological and not related to European State-Aid rules.

 

So yes it is possible, you just have to have a competant and willing government.

 

Is it because the EU forbids it or the UK government cant be bothered?

 

Clearly, UK government cant be bothered!

 

Then, as a nice extra slap in the face, the UK government is/was trying to water down proposed EU duties for Chineese steel, further hurting the domestic steel market:-

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/is-uk-calling-for-lower-eu-duties-chinese-steel/

"European Commission plans to raise duties haven’t been supported by Britain"

 

Now can you see where this is going..

 

I think I can.. yes

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 09:36 ----------

 

Sajid Javid torpedoed protection plans in the EC himself, then came back, saw it went wrong and then cried wolf about the EU...

 

Pretty much this. The standard "blame the EU for UK backstabbing/failures" line....

[ez8004 10]

No.

 

 

 

Then you are wrong and should try doing some proper research instead of taking a guess.

 

What you should really have asked is why many British steelmakers in times of crisis could not be helped (bailed out) out financially by UK governments. Is it because the EU forbids it or the UK government cant be bothered?

 

Now can you see where this is going..

 

I can’t help but say this. You’re an idiot.

 

When the steel industry was on its knees a couple of years ago along with the rest of the steel makers of Europe who were also having great difficulty, the EU actually tried to help. The EU wanted to introduce harsh anti dumping tariffs on all Chinese steel coming into the EU market.

 

Want a guess which government vetoed this approach? I’ll give you a clue, they wanted to protect Hinkley Point C.

 

Of course it was the EU who wanted to collapse our steel industry. Oh wait....

[apelike 10]

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 09:18 ----------

 

Wow, you still believe this one?

 

According to the BBC from 2016 on the steel crisis: "EU rules also restrict how much support governments can give to particular industries. Member states may not use public funds to rescue failing steelmakers. However, EU countries are allowed to boost steel firms' global competitiveness - for instance by funding research and development or helping with high energy bills."

 

Sajid Javid torpedoed protection plans in the EC himself, then came back, saw it went wrong and then cried wolf about the EU...

 

This was publicly outed in countless newsstories, try googling his name and ‘the price of shoes’.

 

Javid may have done that but it still does not alter the fact that the EU restricts how governments can support industries.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 14:03 ----------

 

So yes it is possible, you just have to have a competant and willing government.

 

Who has to abide by EU rules and in the case of Forge-masters was allowed to under research and development, and not because they were a failing company.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 14:12 ----------

 

I can’t help but say this. You’re an idiot.

 

I cant help say this, I'm not bothered what you think as all it shows is a childish mentality on your part.

 

When the steel industry was on its knees a couple of years ago along with the rest of the steel makers of Europe who were also having great difficulty, the EU actually tried to help. The EU wanted to introduce harsh anti dumping tariffs on all Chinese steel coming into the EU market.

 

But they didn't change their rules on using public funds to bail out failing steelmakers which is what I have stated. Now how many British Stainless Steel manufacturers are there.. Oh hang on..

 

Quote by ez8004:

 

"I knew the answer is none."

[tzijlstra 11]

According to the BBC from 2016 on the steel crisis: "EU rules also restrict how much support governments can give to particular industries. Member states may not use public funds to rescue failing steelmakers. However, EU countries are allowed to boost steel firms' global competitiveness - for instance by funding research and development or helping with high energy bills."

 

Javid may have done that but it still does not alter the fact that the EU restricts how governments can support industries.

 

Did Javid give subsidy for energy bills? exclude the steel makers from the renewable energy levies like the Germans did? Did the UK encourage stronger R&D? Did the UK protect steel from suffering from the Chinese dumping their steel at below cost?

 

All the EU restricts is direct subsidy. The UK had a whole arsenal of options available and deployed none, why? Because they weren't interested. All they were interested in was telling the British that the EU was responsible for rampant capitalism. And you bought it, like a good little Brit should.

[altus 540]

But they didn't change their rules on using public funds to bail out failing steelmakers which is what I have stated. Now how many British Stainless Steel manufacturers are there.. Oh hang on..

Given the UK government's record of failing to do things EU rules allow them to do, do you think they'd have used public funds to bail out failing UK steel makers if they had been allowed to?

[Magilla 510]

Who has to abide by EU rules and in the case of Forge-masters was allowed to under research and development, and not because they were a failing company.

 

The reason the companies are failing is because they can't compete.

 

When tarrifs were proposed by the EU to level the playing field so they could, the UK government objected.

 

They've had plenty of opportunity to help the steel industry (energy subsidies for example), but aren't interested.

 

No matter how you paint it, the problem here is the UK government, not the EU.

 

---------- Post added 29-10-2017 at 17:24 ----------

 

Given the UK government's record of failing to do things EU rules allow them to do, do you think they'd have used public funds to bail out failing UK steel makers if they had been allowed to?

 

Not this government no, it's not part of their ideology.

Edited October 29, 2017 by Magilla