The Consequences of Brexit [part 4]

[Carlinate 10]

what's to stop it?

 

unless there is something like a alien invasion then I can't see anything to stop it happening

 

Well maybe this?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZn57A_azVAhVnKcAKHTnOD-gQFggzMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fpolitics%2Fbrexit-latest-news-leave-eu-uk-will-happen-european-union-a7826596.html&usg=AFQjCNEbZAax6KgKziw6_tal5b7t4AFMIw

 

Or this?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZn57A_azVAhVnKcAKHTnOD-gQFghAMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnbc.com%2F2017%2F06%2F01%2Fsoros-suggests-that-brexit-might-never-actually-happen.html&usg=AFQjCNEDy8-fwLHhbskNq5AkCoTZLzREQA

 

Or even this?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjZn57A_azVAhVnKcAKHTnOD-gQFghMMAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mirror.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-news%2Fbrexits-never-going-happen-heres-10675217&usg=AFQjCNEGeiW5ku3zEwoXHuFMRxzRYkycog

 

What is most likely to happen is that Commonsense will prevail, and after years of negotiations another referendum will take place.

 

At which point it will be obvious to even the most hard of understanding that leaving the most successful Trade Bloc in the World ( which will have responded to Brexit by reforming somewhat ) was a stupid decision.

 

The second referendum will include votes from Brexiteers who have come to realise the errors of their ways, those youngsters who regard themselves as European because that's the way it's been all their lives but couldn't be arsed to vote, because everyone from the polls to the bookies said Remain would win, so why bother?

 

So maybe it won't take an Alien invasion.

[SkylinePhoto 10]

In 2008 Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty and the EU kept encouraging a vote until they got the result they wanted.

 

Heres an article from 2008....its from the Daily Mail but actually turned out to be true in the end.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054732/EU-begins-secret-drive-force-Ireland-vote-rejected-Lisbon-Treaty.html

 

This is what is happening in the UK with Brexit. They EU are using propaganda, fear and lies to get the result that they want, which is a second referendum.

 

We have to stay strong.

[tinfoilhat 11]

In 2008 Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty and the EU kept encouraging a vote until they got the result they wanted.

 

Heres an article from 2008....its from the Daily Mail but actually turned out to be true in the end.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054732/EU-begins-secret-drive-force-Ireland-vote-rejected-Lisbon-Treaty.html

 

This is what is happening in the UK with Brexit. They EU are using propaganda, fear and lies to get the result that they want, which is a second referendum.

 

We have to stay strong.

 

What lies? Specifically.

[chalga 10]

In 2008 Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty and the EU kept encouraging a vote until they got the result they wanted.

 

Heres an article from 2008....its from the Daily Mail but actually turned out to be true in the end.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054732/EU-begins-secret-drive-force-Ireland-vote-rejected-Lisbon-Treaty.html

 

This is what is happening in the UK with Brexit. They EU are using propaganda, fear and lies to get the result that they want, which is a second referendum.

 

We have to stay strong.

 

No,the EU are trying to negotiate the UK out of the EU,despite the best efforts of the UK to appear to have no clue as to how they want to get out,mainly because they want to get back in again on their terms.The EU have told them for months now that is not going to happen.

The propaganda,fear and lies were bought and sold by Brexiteers,that brought us to the position where we are now with the EU looking on at the circus that is the UK since the referendum.

When the UK finally does go,the passing will cause barely a ripple in the lives of millions of people in the EU who actually couldn't care less if you are in or out,now get on with it and go,or at least look as if you have some coherent plan to go.

[andyofborg 11]

What is most likely to happen is that Commonsense will prevail, and after years of negotiations another referendum will take place.

 

At which point it will be obvious to even the most hard of understanding that leaving the most successful Trade Bloc in the World ( which will have responded to Brexit by reforming somewhat ) was a stupid decision.

 

The second referendum will include votes from Brexiteers who have come to realise the errors of their ways, those youngsters who regard themselves as European because that's the way it's been all their lives but couldn't be arsed to vote, because everyone from the polls to the bookies said Remain would win, so why bother?

 

So maybe it won't take an Alien invasion.

 

i wish that were true, but i feel common sense has left the country.

 

there is a very strong argument for a second referendum, which might also end up being a general election. the only problem with a second referendum is what happens if people say "no" to whatever is on offer.

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2017 at 08:51 ----------

 

In 2008 Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty and the EU kept encouraging a vote until they got the result they wanted.

 

Heres an article from 2008....its from the Daily Mail but actually turned out to be true in the end.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1054732/EU-begins-secret-drive-force-Ireland-vote-rejected-Lisbon-Treaty.html

 

This is what is happening in the UK with Brexit. They EU are using propaganda, fear and lies to get the result that they want, which is a second referendum.

 

We have to stay strong.

 

what lies and what propaganda?

 

they EU have said very little except "what do you actually want?", something the government can't answer because there is no possible deal which will satisfy enough people to prevent the shouty types at either side of the argument from shouting loudly.

 

maybe they hope to delay things until almost the last minute and rush some sort of deal through so fast that no one has time to study it until it's too late.

 

maybe they hope to do nothing and hope that the resulting chaos when we exit the EU convinces people that a sensible deal can be done before too much of the economy burns.

 

maybe they genuinely dont have a clue about what to do

 

maybe they don't care what happens, after all they are all very rich and can go and do pretty much anything they like anywhere they like.

[Carlinate 10]

There is a misconception that Ireland and Denmark voted No on EU referendums and then voted Yes at the second time of asking on exactly the same conditions.

 

They didn't.

 

What actually happened was that in both cases the reasons for voting No were ascertained and assurances obtained from the EU which specifically addressed those issues.

 

That then allowed a second referendum to take place with the new terms ( which were specific to the countries involved ) being emphasized by the Yes campaign.

 

The citizens of Denmark and Ireland were required to vote on those Treaties because both countries have written constitutions which need the peoples consent to change.

 

Unlike certain other countries which don't have a written constitution and where the government decides on behalf of the people.

 

We held a referendum on a complex and life changing decision when no one had any real idea as to what the outcome would mean to the country in real terms.

 

To then not hold another referendum when it becomes clear what the result of leaving is going to mean, and when the impact on the general public's future can be shown would be ridiculous.

 

Having said which, given our current crop of third rate political buffoons nothing would surprise me.

[Guest]

There is a misconception that Ireland and Denmark voted No on EU referendums and then voted Yes at the second time of asking on exactly the same conditions.

 

They didn't.

 

What actually happened was that in both cases the reasons for voting No were ascertained and assurances obtained from the EU which specifically addressed those issues.

 

That then allowed a second referendum to take place with the new terms ( which were specific to the countries involved ) being emphasized by the Yes campaign.

 

The citizens of Denmark and Ireland were required to vote on those Treaties because both countries have written constitutions which need the peoples consent to change.

 

Unlike certain other countries which don't have a written constitution and where the government decides on behalf of the people.

 

We held a referendum on a complex and life changing decision when no one had any real idea as to what the outcome would mean to the country in real terms.

 

To then not hold another referendum when it becomes clear what the result of leaving is going to mean, and when the impact on the general public's future can be shown would be ridiculous.

 

Having said which, given our current crop of third rate political buffoons nothing would surprise me.

 

Had the Irish and Danish voted yes on the first go, and the "no" camp subsequently raised certain "issues" that they felt rendered the referendums void, do you think the EU would address those issues and run the referendums again?

 

would they hell!

[Hairyloon 10]

In 2008 Ireland rejected the Lisbon treaty and the EU kept encouraging a vote until they got the result they wanted...

 

As I recall, the EU kept changing the treaty, until the Irish accepted it.

[Carlinate 10]

Had the Irish and Danish voted yes on the first go, and the "no" camp subsequently raised certain "issues" that they felt rendered the referendums void, do you think the EU would address those issues and run the referendums again?

 

would they hell!

 

You don't appear to allow logic to play any part in your opinion do you?

 

Had the Irish and Danish voted Yes in the first referendum then the EU would have no option but to accept that they were happy to accept the referendum terms as offered and proceed accordingly.

 

They were not happy to accept what was offered and so the EU made concessions in order to address their concerns and make the Treaty acceptable to them.

 

In the case of our referendum we were offered a straight Yes/No vote with no terms and conditions and no idea as to what a No vote would entail.

 

That was over a year ago and we still don't know exactly what is going to happen.

 

Our politicians are in disarray, arguing among themselves and with no clear plan of action in play.

 

Dominic Cummings was the the political advisor and strategist who served as Campaign Director of Vote Leave has just described David Davis as " Thick as mince, lazy as a toad and vain as narcissus ".

 

As Davis is the Minister charged with bringing Brexit about and Cummings is a Brexiteer they are supposedly on the same side.

 

This does not inspire confidence in a successful outcome to our negotiations.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiS-4PPmq7VAhXiI8AKHTmEAVQQFggtMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fpolitics%2Fdavid-davis-thick-as-mince-lazy-as-a-toad-dominic-cummings-a7845911.html&usg=AFQjCNH-SCn5UqUkdQqie8dLW-ZmMpEDhw

 

---------- Post added 29-07-2017 at 11:12 ----------

 

As I recall, the EU kept changing the treaty, until the Irish accepted it.

 

Correct, they did the same with the Danes in a previous referendum.

 

That's one of the advantages in having a written constitution where the people have to be consulted.

 

Concessions were granted because of the peoples demands, concessions and assurances which their politicians had failed to obtain.

 

In the UK, and most other EU countries the people got what their politicians agreed to,without consultation.

[Hairyloon 10]

This does not inspire confidence in a successful outcome to our negotiations.

 

Come now, what about the Dunkirk Spirit and British True Grit?

Britain did some of its best work after the war: we bounce back after being completely and shafted.

That is the purpose of Brexit: to shaft us completely so we bounce back even better.

[Carlinate 10]

Come now, what about the Dunkirk Spirit and British True Grit?

Britain did some of its best work after the war: we bounce back after being completely and shafted.

That is the purpose of Brexit: to shaft us completely so we bounce back even better.

 

My late father was at Dunkirk.

 

In early June 1985 we were watching the TV news together and at the end they went to an outside broadcast showing a Dunkirk 45 year commemoration parade.

 

And a splendid affair it was too, flags were flying, bands were playing, there was an RAF flypast and a member of the royal family was taking the salute of the parading veterans.

 

While this was going on I was watching my father out of the corner of my eye to see his reaction.

 

He watched it all impassively and then when it was over he turned to me and said " Well I'm not sure what the rest of the lads were doing. but me, your old man, I was running away. "

 

That's the man who raised me, I have a problem with BS from whichever direction it's coming, and currently it's coming from those who would have us believe that it's all going to turn out splendidly and we'll be happy ever after.

 

Despite all the evidence to suggest there's far more chance of the opposite happening going on the current shambles.

[Hairyloon 10]

He watched it all impassively and then when it was over he turned to me and said " Well I'm not sure what the rest of the lads were doing. but me, your old man, I was running away. "

 

Sorry, I'm not getting your point. The whole of the Dunkirk thing was running away.