Ideology - you are being misinformed!

[tinfoilhat 11]

That's a rather bizarre personal attack but thanks for the effort anyway.

 

I'm doing very well thanks, and a big part of that right now is thanks to Brexit.

 

But I also came from quite a poor background, and I've experienced the childhood poverty and having been exactly there I have tremendous empathy for the families the Tories are screwing over while expecting them to be thankful for it.

 

And yes I hate the Tories with an absolute and bloody wonderful passion. And it's never going to stop.

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2017 at 19:44 ----------

 

 

Well, all the best and I hope it works out for you. You have to choose what you think is best for you

 

Whatever happens on June 8 we're are staring into an abyss anyway because of Brexit.

 

Indeed, it feels like we're rearranging the deckchairs on the titanic and getting in a right old tizzy about it.

[Jonny5 10]

That's a rather bizarre personal attack but thanks for the effort anyway.

 

I'm doing very well thanks, and a big part of that right now is thanks to Brexit.

 

But I also came from quite a poor background, and I've experienced the childhood poverty and having been exactly there I have tremendous empathy for the families the Tories are screwing over while expecting them to be thankful for it.

 

And yes I hate the Tories with an absolute and bloody wonderful passion. And it's never going to stop.

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2017 at 19:44 ----------

 

 

Well, all the best and I hope it works out for you. You have to choose what you think is best for you

 

Whatever happens on June 8 we're are staring into an abyss anyway because of Brexit.

In the past you've always insisted you have no political allegiance and are open minded.

 

But then it's always been obvious that you and the all the other "I'm on the fence me" blatantly left wing zealots have your pants on fire.

[*_ash_* 88]

Interesting post crazyhorse, though I've only skimmed it, because one of your first lines caught my attention:

 

Reading these comments is interesting, as it shows the deeply entrenched opposing ideologies of Left and Right in all their glory...but doesn't seem to have twigged that the world has moved on since the 1980s, and that localist or globalist are now the true banners to rally under.

 

I don't think it does really. There are far better (black/white) examples on things like facebook and twitter.

 

I think this is quite a reasonable discussion between mostly quite intelligent people. I think there are one or two who have 'deeply entrenched' left or right views, but in general most people aren't that far apart - One thing I see a lot on the internet is people assuming things from their attacks on a particular party.

 

For example:

People immediately assume that if one posts against Corbyn - They are a Tory.

Anyone who says they voted brexit - Racist

 

I've long complained about Labour and the left in general, but that doesn't make me a Tory. I've never voted for them. My vote is useless anyway because our system means being in an ultra-safe seat means it will always me a useless vote.

 

 

It's nonsense but unfortunately how people think and write these days on social media, and it's spreading into here too slowly. This idea of demonising people into voting the way they think is right...

 

I pointed it out in post 1:

 

Remember, if you vote tory in June, you condemn every child in state school to an 8% cut in their funding, and that's just for starters. Those stockbroker belt inhabitants don't care because they send their children to independent schools.

 

The post was full of it, or facts as you say Staunton.

 

-

 

When I watch QT now, most of them are clueless, and it's worrying when it's clueless vs clueless!

[Robin-H 11]

All that shows is how skewed the pre-tax income distribution has become. The last time I checked (which is a year or two ago), the top 20% paid a smaller percentage of their gross income in tax (direct and indirect) than did the bottom 20%. The ONS has, or used to have, those figures.

 

Also, the post-tax income distribution is still much more skewed than it was in the 1970s, as shown by Gini coefficients, percentile ratios or whatever you want to look at.

 

The poorest pay a larger proportion of their income in indirect taxes, but not direct taxes. The ONS does still have those figures, you can read about them here.

 

That of course isn't surprising - poorer households will spend a larger proportion of their budget on foods etc and things that attract VAT. I am aware that not all food is VAT rated, but I am also aware that poor households don't (and probably can't) limit their purchases to zero VAT rated foods.

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincome/financialyearending2016

[I1L2T3 10]

In the past you've always insisted you have no political allegiance and are open minded.

 

But then it's always been obvious that you and the all the other "I'm on the fence me" blatantly left wing zealots have your pants on fire.

 

Like hell. I've always hated the Tories and never been shy about it.

 

But I am fair minded and when they do things well I have given them credit. I'm not so blinkered that I wouldn't give credit where it is due.

 

Unfortunately May's government has been disastrous.

 

Oh, and thank you as well for the personal attack.

[*_ash_* 88]

The poorest pay a larger proportion of their income in indirect taxes, but not direct taxes. The ONS does still have those figures, you can read about them here.

 

That of course isn't surprising - poorer households will spend a larger proportion of their budget on foods etc and things that attract VAT. I am aware that not all food is VAT rated, but I am also aware that poor households don't (and probably can't) limit their purchases to zero VAT rated foods.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincome/financialyearending2016

 

Whist Captain catches up with the percentages of income generated in the country and where it mostly comes from...

 

I wonder how many people know what is VAT free when shopping?

[Robin-H 11]

Whist Captain catches up with the percentages of income generated in the country and where it mostly comes from...

 

I wonder how many people know what is VAT free when shopping?

 

Indeed. It's actually quite a lot (in terms of food), but I had to look it up. It actually applies to most foodstuffs, such as bread, butter, cheese, cereals, condiments, flour, fruit, herbs, meat, milk, pasta, pastes, sauces, soup, spices, sugar, and vegetables (fresh or frozen).

 

It probably would be possible to only buy zero VAT rated foods and have a good healthy diet (indeed it might encourage a healthy diet, as ready meals and sugary snacks do have VAT on them). You're right however that I imagine a lot of people don't know what is VAT rated and what isn't.

 

Perhaps zero rated foods should be labelled as such.

[*_ash_* 88]

Indeed. It's actually quite a lot (in terms of food), but I had to look it up. It actually applies to most foodstuffs, such as bread, butter, cheese, cereals, condiments, flour, fruit, herbs, meat, milk, pasta, pastes, sauces, soup, spices, sugar, and vegetables (fresh or frozen).

 

It probably would be possible to only buy zero VAT rated foods and have a good healthy diet (indeed it might encourage a healthy diet, as ready meals and sugary snacks do have VAT on them). You're right however that I imagine a lot of people don't know what is VAT rated and what isn't.

 

Perhaps zero rated foods should be labelled as such.

 

Exactly. The only signs I see are 3 for 2 etc.

 

If they said VAT free and you're not paying money to the Torys, perhaps it would encourage more purchases.

[tinfoilhat 11]

Exactly. The only signs I see are 3 for 2 etc.

 

If they said VAT free and you're not paying money to the Torys, perhaps it would encourage more purchases.

 

Are you missing a sarcasm smiley there ash? VAT pays for schools and hospitals!

[I1L2T3 10]

To add to the tax debate we always get told that the top x % pay so much more in income tax.

 

That is made to seem like they are funding almost the entire government, almost all of our services.

 

The truth is that somewhere around 33% of HMRC revenue is from income tax, eclipsed by almost 50% that comes from VAT and NICs combined, both of which arguably are regressive for lower earners.

 

As for income tax about 70% of it is paid by middle earners, about 50% of working adults. Yet we are made to feel that the hard work we put in and the taxes we pay counts for less than what the top 1% or 5% or 10% pay.

 

So messed up

[Staunton 18]

The post was full of it, or facts as you say Staunton.

 

What is needed is responsible reporting - but that is a fantasy. Instead we have the Murdoch empire delivering misinformation and distraction. Or perhaps you believe the Sun, The Times, Sky News are the upholders of responsible, impartial factual recording and fair, unbiased scrutiny and analysis, upholders of the highest principles of journalism?

 

'Freedom and choice' is the mantra of neoliberalism, but they must make sure that those choices are carefully managed, hence the mainstream media propaganda industry set to trash anything and anyone who gets in the way of vested interests. It is cynical and manipulative, and it works.

[*_ash_* 88]

What is needed is responsible reporting - but that is a fantasy. Instead we have the Murdoch empire delivering misinformation and distraction. Or perhaps you believe the Sun, The Times, Sky News are the upholders of responsible, impartial factual recording and fair, unbiased scrutiny and analysis, upholders of the highest principles of journalism?

 

You can't stop can you?

 

What is needed is responsible reporting - but that is a fantasy. Instead we have the Murdoch empire delivering misinformation and distraction. Or perhaps you believe the Sun, The Times, Sky News are the upholders of responsible, impartial factual recording and fair, unbiased scrutiny and analysis, upholders of the highest principles of journalism?

 

Just out of interest though, at any point in time have all these papers and all the rag mags ever been an impartial news source?

 

---------- Post added 30-05-2017 at 10:20 ----------

 

Are you missing a sarcasm smiley there ash? VAT pays for schools and hospitals!

 

Yes good point... I forgot about 'thinking of the children'