Ideology - you are being misinformed!

[Mister M 1,608]

During the 70s and early 80s was at its most polarised (thanks politics A-Level ) but post 90s there was barely a fag paper between them - despite what the press said. It's been very much the cult of personality - hence Blair and Cameron. Now we've got a situation where none of them are particularly interesting - but the policies are different.

 

I'd see that as a positive.

[Anna B 1,401]

Her ideas might have been ideological, but she was more of a pragmatist and still spent big on public services (I read some figures some where).

 

Polarisation gives voters real choice but it divides. Old halibut is calling the tories evil - does this extend to the voters as well? Its hardly going to make people get along and work together - why would I help someone who views me with such contempt?

 

If May wins there will be public sector strikes in the first week no matter what she say or does.

 

Who views you with contempt? i certainly don't. Nor do I condemn anyone for the way they vote, I just think they're misguided, but they probably think the same of me.

 

Margaret Thatcher was a pragmatist as you say, but in essence I think that's because she never forgot her roots. She was despised by many of her own politicians and civil servants because of it. She wasn't one of the club and really did know the price of a loaf of bread. It was her fundamental policies that I disagreed with. And frankly, I think that's why we are where we are today.

 

You're right, the next decade will be dire, until we find a new direction that works for everybody. Meanwhile I want the casualties to be looked after and supported. We have enough people on the streets already.

[Hairyloon 10]

I am surprised that those promoting it havnt had a visit from the Police.

 

On what basis?

[crazyhorse 37]

Reading these comments is interesting, as it shows the deeply entrenched opposing ideologies of Left and Right in all their glory...but doesn't seem to have twigged that the world has moved on since the 1980s, and that localist or globalist are now the true banners to rally under.

 

In my experience of 49 yrs on this planet, the issues always come back to local people on one hand and globalists on the other. This seems to be true in all the countries I have been lucky enough to visit and all the cultures I have experienced...no doubt because we are all human and humans act as humans the world over.

 

If they ever met me in person, some on this forum would pigeonhole me as a Tory voting, Southern, nationalistic, free market capitalist...40 something, right of centre, non unionised private sector employee up for NHS privatisation...and a recent arrival in Sheffield (1998) to make things even worse...

I work for an IT supplier to the NHS and so I must be part of the evil Tory privatisation plan for the NHS...right?

Wrong - over the last 10 years, I have spent years at hospitals all over the north and east of England - James Paget, Whythenshawe, Gateshead, Dewsbury, Barnsley, Southport, Nottingham...working with dedicated IT people who believe in the NHS and what it stands for.

I like to count myself amongst them...I restart their servers in the middle of the night and use the NHS, NHS dentistry, my kids were born down the road and as a family we are all in eternal gratitude to the wonderful SCH.

Regardless of my vote on 8th June, I will always support them...but we must also get beyond the ideology and myth surrounding it and admit that it is not an organisation without it's faults...

I have spent enough time working with them to peek beyond the ideological defences and experience the downside of the culture...sideways promotion of incompetance, personal feuds and empire building, lack of acceptance of responsibility, waste of money, time and resources, ideological straightjackets, rampant political correctness and so on.

The question however is whether I am simply parroting something from the Daily Mail (and being misled), or whether it is personal experience (and valid).

I can also understand the frustrations of the patients using those hospitals and pick up something of their local community and it's concerns.

As residents of Brexitland, they are no doubt "thick, uneducated, fascists" to some of the ideologically better trained on this forum.

Not to me, as although I admit I will never walk in their shoes, I do stand in solidarity with them (a fine Labour concept) and their battered communities as fellow citizens of my country (an unfashionable patriotic/nationalist concept) and it's shared history. Perhaps that is why I voted for Brexit (despite my education and apparent class dictating I should do otherwise) and would do again and again, if only to slow the onward march of the globalists and disrupt their grand plans.

Simple self preservation perhaps also played a part...after all I, like many others in society are just as much at risk of being outsourced as any other. Where are the developers in my company? - gone (to India in fact).

The only reason I am still here, is that you cannot yet outsource the people at the hospital...

 

In case you haven't guessed, it is true that on the 8th June, I will be voting for those that cannot be named (at least not up here).

This will be purely to implement Brexit as far as possible and annoy my local MP, who according to the deluge of junk mail he sends, has a proud record of working with local people on local issues...when in fact we all know he is only concerned with preserving his grand European plan.

I accept some around here may see this as a shameful act, similar to pimping out one's own children, but rest assured, I am still the kind of person you could invite round your house in daylight hours.

Personally, I think people should vote for whomever currently supports their worldview or can help them to realise it...or indeed no one at all, if none are worthy and I fully hope people will see beyond the ideology of others (including mine) and vote according to their own personal life experiences.

 

After all at one time in my life (my Billy Bragg years), I proudly voted Labour and looked far beyond England for the new Jerusalem.

At one time (my Gaia years), I proudly voted Green and LibDem and smugly redirected others onto the correct (bicycle) path.

Then UKIP to annoy the people who said I should not and to remind the politicians of who is supposed to be in charge and now to the "other ones" for the implementation of that annoyance.

Currently I rally to a localist banner, local jobs, local people, local communities, local industry, local farming, local travel, local democracy, local ties, smaller more realistic plans...but with global cooperation on big issues (the environment).

I appreciate not much of this is represented in my current political home, but it is a temporary halt towards my final destination (an ideology that matches my personal ideology)...and for which there is sadly no current political home.

What all these stages seem to have in common is the initial enthusiastic capture by an ideology, then as I live and breath it and start to read more, the eventual realisation that the real world implementation of such an ideology will never live up to the ideals, and so time to move on.

[Anna B 1,401]

An interesting and well meant post Crazyhorse, though I'm not sure I 'got' it all. you've obviously considered hard. Good luck with your vote.

 

For those interested, particularly those still undecided, there's 'May v's Corbyn Live: The battle for No 10,' on Channel 4 at 8.30pm tonight (Monday 29th May.)

 

'Jeremy Paxman interviews Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn individually.' Pick of the day.

 

Should be interesting though Bank Holiday Monday seems an odd time to put it on...

[tinfoilhat 11]

I think brexit has muddied the water a lot. Crazyhorse (interesting post by the way) voted brexit for one reason (hoping that jobs won't get exported to India) while I feel under may, that's exactly what will happen in huge numbers. In that light, corbyns socialist utopia might be the best job in town, but I fear my business would eventually go under as a result of a lot of his policies, so would many others.

[I1L2T3 10]

I think brexit has muddied the water a lot. Crazyhorse (interesting post by the way) voted brexit for one reason (hoping that jobs won't get exported to India) while I feel under may, that's exactly what will happen in huge numbers. In that light, corbyns socialist utopia might be the best job in town, but I fear my business would eventually go under as a result of a lot of his policies, so would many others.

 

How would Corbyns policies impact your business? What are your fears?

 

You have to remember that every leading Brexiter to a man/woman predicts some economic upheaval. Translated into what that means for us ordinary bods that is financial uncertainty job losses, failed businesses etc... we know the Brexit May envisages is of the extreme variety

 

You obviously have to make your own choice but be mindful that May winning carries heavy risks as well.'

[tinfoilhat 11]

How would Corbyns policies impact your business? What are your fears?

 

You have to remember that every leading Brexiter to a man/woman predicts some economic upheaval. Translated into what that means for us ordinary bods that is financial uncertainty job losses, failed businesses etc... we know the Brexit May envisages is of the extreme variety

 

You obviously have to make your own choice but be mindful that May winning carries heavy risks as well.'

 

My business, and many others in the service industry, is based on froth. Rich people, big companies even the odd public school spend money with me. Now a chunk are leaving anyway (brexit) and if corbyn gets in his socialist policies will chase others away - it happened in France I've no reason to think it won't happen here. Now if we become a tax haven of sorts under may, I might fair a bit better but it will become more cutthroat, and the rest of the economy, particularly the public sector clients I have will stop spending, it's already happening. We've trimmed the fat where we can, changed a few things, updated where I can but I fear the future. There isn't a win.

[mossdog 10]

How would Corbyns policies impact your business? What are your fears?

 

You have to remember that every leading Brexiter to a man/woman predicts some economic upheaval. Translated into what that means for us ordinary bods that is financial uncertainty job losses, failed businesses etc... we know the Brexit May envisages is of the extreme variety

 

You obviously have to make your own choice but be mindful that May winning carries heavy risks as well.'

.......and Corbyn winning does not??? you really remind me of an angry person with a sense of failure whose aspirations and ambitions have not been met.

You seem to despise the people in society who you consider less well educated or talented than yourself but who never the less seem to have some form of success over and above your deserving self. These people from all walks of life you tend to think of as 'greedy barstewards" and must be Tory voters!......you, like a lot of left leaners tend to hide behind the flags of morality and concern for the poor as though no one else does apart from others of your persuasion!..........I think this is a convenient closet in which to hide your deep down sense of failure from which you seem to suffer!

[I1L2T3 10]

.......and Corbyn winning does not??? you really remind me of an angry person with a sense of failure whose aspirations and ambitions have not been met.

You seem to despise the people in society who you consider less well educated or talented than yourself but who never the less seem to have some form of success over and above your deserving self. These people from all walks of life you tend to think of as 'greedy barstewards" and must be Tory voters!......you, like a lot of left leaners tend to hide behind the flags of morality and concern for the poor as though no one else does apart from others of your persuasion!..........I think this is a convenient closet in which to hide your deep down sense of failure from which you seem to suffer!

 

That's a rather bizarre personal attack but thanks for the effort anyway.

 

I'm doing very well thanks, and a big part of that right now is thanks to Brexit.

 

But I also came from quite a poor background, and I've experienced the childhood poverty and having been exactly there I have tremendous empathy for the families the Tories are screwing over while expecting them to be thankful for it.

 

And yes I hate the Tories with an absolute and bloody wonderful passion. And it's never going to stop.

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2017 at 19:44 ----------

 

My business, and many others in the service industry, is based on froth. Rich people, big companies even the odd public school spend money with me. Now a chunk are leaving anyway (brexit) and if corbyn gets in his socialist policies will chase others away - it happened in France I've no reason to think it won't happen here. Now if we become a tax haven of sorts under may, I might fair a bit better but it will become more cutthroat, and the rest of the economy, particularly the public sector clients I have will stop spending, it's already happening. We've trimmed the fat where we can, changed a few things, updated where I can but I fear the future. There isn't a win.

 

Well, all the best and I hope it works out for you. You have to choose what you think is best for you

 

Whatever happens on June 8 we're are staring into an abyss anyway because of Brexit.

[mossdog 10]

That's a rather bizarre personal attack but thanks for the effort anyway.

 

I'm doing very well thanks, and a big part of that right now is thanks to Brexit.

 

But I also came from quite a poor background, and I've experienced the childhood poverty and having been exactly there I have tremendous empathy for the families the Tories are screwing over while expecting them to be thankful for it.

 

And yes I hate the Tories with an absolute and bloody wonderful passion. And it's never going to stop.

 

---------- Post added 29-05-2017 at 19:44 ----------

 

 

Well, all the best and I hope it works out for you. You have to choose what you think is best for you

 

Whatever happens on June 8 we're are staring into an abyss anyway because of Brexit.

..........confirmed all my suspicions!

[I1L2T3 10]

..........confirmed all my suspicions!

 

What the blazes are you going on about?

 

What are your suspicions?

 

That I've got a decent job, have had a good education, made good from a poor background, hate the Tories?

 

If so, good. Consider your suspicions confirmed.