Manchester Arena explosion 22/05/2017

[OPEN BORDERS 10]

Spent a lot of time reading / watch TV coverage / TV discussions etc over the weekend so far.

In all honesty we as a country have no idea how to combat another atrocity like Monday night in Manchester.

There seems to be no middle ground agreement, Left, Right, Black, White, Christian, Muslim etc etc

Now figures vary about the people who are a potential / direct threat to us.

The bottom line figure is 3000 - now that's a lot of people.

The Manchester / Westminster murderers were not included in the 3000

Now we all know the the vast majority of Muslims are as disgusted as everybody else.

But the brutal honest truth is - its Muslims by and large who carry out such atrocities.

I don't think for one moment its the fault of our Foreign policies alone. Maybe our governments have made mistakes. Usually the use of our military has been authorised by Parliament. We are a democratic country after all.

How many of the 3000 I mentioned, abhor music concerts, want Sharia Law, agree with wife beating etc

How do 'we' convince those people to change their views ?

Those 3000 will not agree with democracy.

There will be more attacks like this, probably in the not too distant future.

It takes one man, a rucksack, and few sympathisers to help him on his way.

Do we really want the Army deployed on our streets becoming the 'norm' !

You can only conclude that the people carrying out these acts are 'Jihadi's' carrying out their idea of Islam.

How we stop them I have no idea. This country needs a big discussion, but our Politicians / Faith leaders are too scared in my opinion.

One thing is for sure our OPEN BORDER policy, forced on us by the EU has not helped our Security Services.

[melthebell 863]

But the brutal honest truth is - its Muslims by and large who carry out such atrocities.

you know what, its also predominently male, 99% or so are males in both terrorism AND while we're on the subject, Peadophillia, but the sex of the attackers doesnt matter, just the religion

 

---------- Post added 28-05-2017 at 12:31 ----------

 

I don't think for one moment its the fault of our Foreign policies alone. Maybe our governments have made mistakes. Usually the use of our military has been authorised by Parliament. We are a democratic country after all.

How many of the 3000 I mentioned, abhor music concerts, want Sharia Law, agree with wife beating etc

How do 'we' convince those people to change their views ?

Those 3000 will not agree with democracy.

There will be more attacks like this, probably in the not too distant future.

It takes one man, a rucksack, and few sympathisers to help him on his way.

Do we really want the Army deployed on our streets becoming the 'norm' !

You can only conclude that the people carrying out these acts are 'Jihadi's' carrying out their idea of Islam.

again i think youre completely wrong, the ones wanting sharia law, beatings, etc are the ones NOT doing the attacks, they are the ones in syria and iraq etc, doing the propaganda videos and texts and getting young and stupid "boys" and young men to do the dirty work.

Like the Manchester attack, a lot of these "boys" are easily lead, feel alienated and angry, and ultimately get suckered into it thinking they are doing the right thing.

You look at the ages of all those recently dead or arrested for these attacks, most are between 20 and 30?, you only get the odd few of later age groups. also most already have a penchent for petty crime, drugs and violence.

It seems its easy for the propaganda to sway them and make them angry against the system.

[OPEN BORDERS 10]

you know what, its also predominently male, 99% or so are males in both terrorism AND while we're on the subject, Peadophillia, but the sex of the attackers doesnt matter, just the religion

 

I don't know if you watch the news or read a lot, but....

The religion of the Murderers is usually the same.

You tell me which one it is.

[El Cid 216]

Spent a lot of time reading / watch TV coverage / TV discussions etc over the weekend so far.

In all honesty we as a country have no idea how to combat another atrocity like Monday night in Manchester.

 

Salman Abedi attending a UK university which did not cooperate with the Governments anti-terrorism policies.

The Governments policies could have been better, but allowing a main stream uni not to cooperate does seem wrong.

 

The police federation are becoming more critical of Government policy. The Tories have kept the lid on debate since the Manchester bombing, but we need more open debate.

Steve White, Chair of the Police Federation of England and Wales said: “As always, the response of emergency workers in the face of adversity has been second to none. The welcome support of the military to free up armed officers and offer public reassurance will no doubt be managed in the same professional, resolute way. But, as welcome as this is, we cannot avoid the reasons it is needed at all. There is no ignoring the fact that we, the police, simply do not have the resources to manage an event like this on our own.”

 

http://www.polfed.org/newsroom/4381.aspx

[melthebell 863]

I don't know if you watch the news or read a lot, but....

The religion of the Murderers is usually the same.

You tell me which one it is.

oh give over, its far too easy just to say its muslims, theyre scum. we need to look deeper, look at whos doing it, why they get involved, how they got involved and try and stop people being turned on to it by propaganda, i believe there also needs to be better propaganda put out there to counter it by us.

[OPEN BORDERS 10]

oh give over, its far too easy just to say its muslims, theyre scum. we need to look deeper, look at whos doing it, why they get involved, how they got involved and try and stop people being turned on to it by propaganda, i believe there also needs to be better propaganda put out there to counter it by us.

 

First of all I have never said 'its Muslims, theyre scum' that's your phrase, not mine.

[I1L2T3 10]

I don't know if you watch the news or read a lot, but....

The religion of the Murderers is usually the same.

You tell me which one it is.

 

If you think it's Islam it's not the Islam that the vast majority of Muslims recognise.

 

Like Mel said these are terrorists pure and simple. Disaffected and misguided young (mostly) men drawn to terrorism, not Islam.

[OPEN BORDERS 10]

If you think it's Islam it's not the Islam that the vast majority of Muslims recognise.

 

Like Mel said these are terrorists pure and simple. Disaffected and misguided young (mostly) men drawn to terrorism, not Islam.

 

If the men who are 'drawn' to Terrorism - are disaffected and misguided.

How do you answer that they are mainly of the Islamic faith ?

Why is that do you think ?

[nowt2pctoday 10]

If you think it's Islam it's not the Islam that the vast majority of Muslims recognise.

 

Like Mel said these are terrorists pure and simple. Disaffected and misguided young (mostly) men drawn to terrorism, not Islam.

 

so tell us? do you think most Muslims in inner cities know to some extent personally or know "of"someone in the community that holds extreme beliefs from minor support to radical major support??

we are agreed that a large majority dont support terrorism but how many quietly and behind closed doors conveniently ignore it??

[I1L2T3 10]

If the men who are 'drawn' to Terrorism - are disaffected and misguided.

How do you answer that they are mainly of the Islamic faith ?

Why is that do you think ?

 

They are committing terrorist acts in the name of a faith, but very often they do not even practice it. Or they practice it in a flexible way where they get drunk, take drugs etc...

 

You have to look wider than the faith they profess to have. Much wider. These are angry, often economically excluded and malleable young men.

 

---------- Post added 28-05-2017 at 13:31 ----------

 

so tell us? do you think most Muslims in inner cities know to some extent personally or know "of"someone in the community that holds extreme beliefs from minor support to radical major support??

we are agreed that a large majority dont support terrorism but how many quietly and behind closed doors conveniently ignore it??

 

I don't think it is ignored by the Muslim community.

[melthebell 863]

If the men who are 'drawn' to Terrorism - are disaffected and misguided.

How do you answer that they are mainly of the Islamic faith ?

Why is that do you think ?

most of the attackers of the last couple of years are drawn into it via criminality, drink, drugs and violence, does that sound like a "good" muslim to you?

Some like Lee Rigbys killers were converts to the faith, ie:- not born into it, they discovered it later in life, as i said i think some who are easily lead see the propaganda, are looking for something in their lives, get drawn in and want to do good, but get more and more angry with the bombings etc in places like syria

[petemcewan 27]

Mellthebell,

 

As you suggest the "need to look deeper". What kind of man or boy has a total disregard for human life ,and is prepared to perpetrate atrocities ? Are they -at heart- some kind of unstable psychopathic monster, just looking for the right death cult to join or identify with ?

 

You see, for me, I think their actions are driven by something deeper than just alienation /misguided zeal/lack of direction in life. I do agree with you that there are material factors at work. But there's got to be something more at work to give rise to such deadly individuals.

Edited May 28, 2017 by petemcewan