Who's at fault here in this car crash

[bassett one 450]

could be a knock for knock insurance .claim

[Chez2 10]

The traffic lights weren't involved in this case as they both entered from the same approach.

 

If you've been driving on that for 34 years then you will no doubt have seen the changes on the approach from Templebro has changed heading to Sheffield?

 

-

 

Why do you think they changed that?

 

That's a rhetorical question btw Chez, so I'll save you the time posting , it was because it was poorly designed, and eventually someone saw it.

 

-

 

I pointed out faults in Meadowhead and Moore Street too in here and both have been changed since - though the Meadowhead problem I could have sorted with a pot of paint rather than spending 6 million pounds moving the whole thing 8 feet to the left, and leaving it not much better now

 

This either leads me to believe that the council read this, or that I have an unusual infatuation with roundabout markings!

 

 

 

Yes, good example of someone who should be fired for drawing that up. The only reason this isn't dangerous is because it's only small and everyone knows the lanes markings are rubbish. I use this one several times a day as it's in my work area and tend to protect myself and my car by straddling these lanes all the way around especially if going to Asda from Halifax Road.

 

(edit the new Furnival Gate roundabout was probably designed by the same person as the Asda one, as they have the same issue)

 

Actually *ash* the road markings and lanes are worse now than the previous markings so it shouldn't have been a rhetorical question, especially if you are trying to have a serious discussion.

 

The black car was positioned oddly if it had been in the second lane at the side of the white car rather than coming round the roundabout. I had trouble keeping track of it on the clip.

 

I do think its ridiculous allowing the left lane to do anything other than turn left. I know people used to go straight on in that lane even when it used to be left turn only (in that lane).

 

The whole roundabout and traffic light phasing is bad there. As I drive there regularly I can keep an eye out for wandering traffic but a lot of drivers fail to keep in their proper lane. Not sure if its a lane discipline thing or they decide to swap lanes.

 

---------- Post added 20-05-2017 at 17:40 ----------

 

If the white car is in the right then that junction is dangerously badly designed.

 

I think it is badly designed Alan.

[*_ash_* 88]

Actually *ash* the road markings and lanes are worse now than the previous markings so it shouldn't have been a rhetorical question, especially if you are trying to have a serious discussion.

 

I wasn't having a go Chez

 

If you look at the wording I was talking about another approach, not this one in the thread:

 

on the approach from Templebro

 

This has changed since I used it, and it is 'slightly' better!

[paulhodgkins 10]

Black car.

If a driver reads the road correctly, how can they be at fault?

Read the road markings before entering the roundabout, this is a no-brainer.

 

Just the same at Park Square. If you read the road markings and signage before entering the roundabout, you'll be in the correct lane to exit.

[kidley 48]

can i ask a question.

if i was coming from Chesterfield and came off the M1 on the roundabout and i wanted to go to Wincobank, what lanes would i use to go under the viaduct?

[peak4 277]

can i ask a question.

if i was coming from Chesterfield and came off the M1 on the roundabout and i wanted to go to Wincobank, what lanes would i use to go under the viaduct?

 

I think;

 

Middle/RH lanes as you drop off the M1 on the slip road;

It being shown as the 3rd exit on the big blue sign i.e. M1N The only markings on the road are Meadowhall in the Left & Middle lanes, so knowing that you need to take a later exit, the Mid/RH would seem intuitively reasonable.

 

Continue Middle/RH lanes to next traffic lights as you have now picked up on the road markings as M1N, confirming your previous decision;

 

As you pass the golf shop, the Middle lane heads for the Left Hand, the RH lane now heads for the middle, (actually it splits, but you need the left had of the two) again signed M1N, so you are now in LH/Middle lane;

 

Peel off onto the bottom deck, Left or Right Hand lane on the viaduct, depending whether you were in the Left or Middle lane previously.

 

N.B. on a couple of these Traffic Light controlled junctions, you will need to cross the lane markings beyond the lights , in order to arrive in the appropriate lane.

In the first case you are guided by the extra diagonal hash on the dashed lane marking you are crossing. Note that the lane markings have wider gaps between adjacent white dashes here.

The next one, as you break off for the bottom deck, these diagonal guiding hashes are missing, and there are shorter gaps in the white lane markings.

 

In order to get to where you are obviously heading, you have no option but to cross the lane markings, even though the "guiding" diagonal hashes may be missing.

 

I think that's correct, as I was flipping between windows on Google Maps to follow the route round the southernmost "roundabout"

I'm not in Sheffield at the moment, so can't verify that the lane markings are still as Google Streetview, which is what I've based this description on.

Google Earth Satellite View is almost certainly out of date.

Edited May 21, 2017 by peak4

[kidley 48]

I think;

 

Middle/RH lanes as you drop off the M1 on the slip road;

It being shown as the 3rd exit on the big blue sign i.e. M1N The only markings on the road are Meadowhall in the Left & Middle lanes, so knowing that you need to take a later exit, the Mid/RH would seem intuitively reasonable.

 

Continue Middle/RH lanes to next traffic lights as you have now picked up on the road markings as M1N, confirming your previous decision;

 

As you pass the golf shop, the Middle lane heads for the Left Hand, the RH lane now heads for the middle, (actually it splits, but you need the left had of the two) again signed M1N, so you are now in LH/Middle lane;

 

Peel off onto the bottom deck, Left or Right Hand lane on the viaduct, depending whether you were in the Left or Middle lane previously.

 

N.B. on a couple of these Traffic Light controlled junctions, you will need to cross the lane markings beyond the lights , in order to arrive in the appropriate lane.

In the first case you are guided by the extra diagonal hash on the dashed lane marking you are crossing. Note that the lane markings have wider gaps between adjacent white dashes here.

The next one, as you break off for the bottom deck, these diagonal guiding hashes are missing, and there are shorter gaps in the white lane markings.

 

In order to get to where you are obviously heading, you have no option but to cross the lane markings, even though the "guiding" diagonal hashes may be missing.

 

I think that's correct, as I was flipping between windows on Google Maps to follow the route round the southernmost "roundabout"

I'm not in Sheffield at the moment, so can't verify that the lane markings are still as Google Streetview, which is what I've based this description on.

Google Earth Satellite View is almost certainly out of date.

 

Thank you for very detailed answer, so am i correct in thinking you cannot turn left under the viaduct when in the middle lane, no matter where you entered the roundabout?

 

the reason i asked is, if you can turn left under the viaduct in the middle lane and, another car in the left hand lane can go straight on, it doent bare thinking about.

Edited May 21, 2017 by kidley

[peak4 277]

Thank you for very detailed answer, so am i correct in thinking you cannot turn left under the viaduct when in the middle lane, no matter where you entered the roundabout?

 

the reason i asked is, if you can turn left under the viaduct in the middle lane and, another car in the left hand lane can go straight on, it doent bare thinking about.

 

Not quite sure what you mean there Kidley, from the set of lights on Tinsley South "Roundabout" preceding the one where the incident occurred, the left hand lane (signwritten Left only) to left lane under viaduct as normal is fine, but middle lane (lane signwritten left/straight on) to right hand lane under viaduct is also fine. Both are written on the road as M1N.

 

Also, both require you to cross lane markings.

 

However, the thing we must remember, is that these are all traffic light controlled junctions, so if you follow said middle lane (from the lights preceding the dashcam car) to the Right Hand lane of the viaduct, there shouldn't be anything coming from your left to hit.

 

Obviously if the lights are out of order, proceed with caution, and treat as a normal roundabout, giving way to traffic on the roundabout, approaching from your right.

 

Clearly it is also incumbent on anyone joining that, or any other, junction to make sure that no-one has run a red light.

[kidley 48]

If you look at my link,(Golf Shop) you can turn left onto M1N in both the left hand lane and the middle lane, so if coming up Sheffield Road and going to Rotherham in the left hand lane and a car in the middle lane wants to go left to M1N, its a recipe for disaster?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Tinsley+Roundabout,+Sheffield+S9/@53.4128221,-1.4028056,53a,35y,342.07h,45.06t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48797797c374fcf9:0x86dbd47c2fb89fff!8m2!3d53.412465!4d-1.4007525

[*_ash_* 88]

If you look at my link,(Golf Shop) you can turn left onto M1N in both the left hand lane and the middle lane, so if coming up Sheffield Road and going to Rotherham in the left hand lane and a car in the middle lane wants to go left to M1N, its a recipe for disaster?

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Tinsley+Roundabout,+Sheffield+S9/@53.4128221,-1.4028056,53a,35y,342.07h,45.06t/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x48797797c374fcf9:0x86dbd47c2fb89fff!8m2!3d53.412465!4d-1.4007525

 

It is if the lights are out.

 

The lights should stop this happening.

 

I'll look for another thread, where I pointed this out on a non-traffic controlled roundabout...

[kidley 48]

OK but the road markings say both the left hand lane AND the middle lane can turn onto M1N

[*_ash_* 88]

ha found it already!

 

Look at this picture here... it's almost exactly the same issue that was on Meadowhead roundabout...

 

LINK

 

All the pictures are in this post here

 

 

blimey that post is 10 years old!