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I don't know how you have arrived at that conclusion. :confused: Someone higher up the thread said people don't have a meal before or after something else in town. I was saying that I used to do this on a regular basis, perhaps once or twice a month, depending when the plays were as we attended all of them to get discounts.

 

As far as I'm aware, most towns or cities have expensive parking. The prices in Worksop and Rotherham used to be cheap but not now.

 

I don't mind walking to the shops from the car park but don't want to pay extra money for parking for the privilege of the extra walking distance. I prefer to park close, shop, then head home. I'm not really strong enough to carry lots of heavy bags a long distance now I don't do any manual work.

 

Personally, I don't think the car parking and roads are well thought through as part of the bigger picture.

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2017 at 11:29 ----------

 

 

There are various shops within the complex that was build on the site of the old town hall. These are craft and gift shops, not sure what else. There are several on the pedestrianised bit near high street. There are a few cake shops / cafes, a deli / café, two old fashioned sweet shops. A vintage shop, not sure if its all second hand or some new but I think its sells some new 'unusual clothing', too unusual for me LOL. There is the makers emporium (find it on Facebook or search engine) on high street too. An inexpensive independent picture framing shop on the edge of the market.

 

I think it's a real shame that the new market hasn't provided this. It had ample opportunity to provide decent rents for good quality food stalls, selling high quality and bespoke produce. Instead the market has become like poundland but worse. There is nothing special about the market at all, everything available in there is available from hundreds of other similar outlets all selling the same things.

 

Some of the butchers are fishmongers in there are good quality but again there is little in the way of variation, it's all the same small range meats and fish, nothing exciting, nothing new.

 

Perhaps I'm wrong and the market is working well in it's current form but footfall numbers seem much lower than predicted and the only part that seems busy is the excellent food court (some of the tastiest food I've had in town for a long while!).

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Isn't there a large and quite artisanal butchers just up from John Lewis on Division Street?

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Cyclone - if you look at my other posts on other threads you will see I have chosen to live where there are good transport links, I live just off junction 31 of the M1. It takes me less than twenty minutes to get to Wellbeck, about the same to get to Rotherham, a bit less to get to Worksop, twenty five minutes to get to Doncaster, just under half an hour to Retford and about half an hour or a shade more to Sheffield city centre.

 

I drive around seeing customers for my business so I often call in at shops as I'm passing. Hubby does the supermarket run as he likes to be even quicker than I do and he says I take too long reading all the labels.

 

I haven't shopped in Morrisons for a couple of years, had too many fresh things well in date that were off or contaminated. We supermarket shop at Tesco.

 

Edit - our butcher is in the next village. He used to deliver on his way home or let us call in early if we couldn't make shop hours.

Edited by Chez2
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Isn't there a large and quite artisanal butchers just up from John Lewis on Division Street?

 

Yep, Simmonites, that wanted to open in the new market but decided against it because the standard rents were too high, opening hours too rubbish and storage etc abysmal.

 

http://www.thestar.co.uk/business/sheffield-market-shunned-as-traders-set-up-shop-1-5836981

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Cyclone - if you look at my other posts on other threads you will see I have chosen to live where there are good transport links, I live just off junction 31 of the M1. It takes me less than twenty minutes to get to Wellbeck, about the same to get to Rotherham, a bit less to get to Worksop, twenty five minutes to get to Doncaster, just under half an hour to Retford and about half an hour or a shade more to Sheffield city centre.

 

What way do you go to Sheffield from J31 and what time of day usually? Google maps seems to suggest it's only 21 minutes at this time of day. Traffic obviously makes rush hour travel a bit longer to the city centre, but then your other times quoted would also be affected by that?

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What way do you go to Sheffield from J31 and what time of day usually? Google maps seems to suggest it's only 21 minutes at this time of day. Traffic obviously makes rush hour travel a bit longer to the city centre, but then your other times quoted would also be affected by that?

 

I don't know what you have looked the time and distance up on. Try putting Laughton en le morthen into AA route planner.

 

I only go into the City centre if I'm going for something specific or to see a customer. I presume you are counting the moor end of town at the city centre too?

 

I either go M1, Parkway or M1 to Meadowhall then down Attercliffe. Its twenty minutes to junction 34 off peak travel time. I try never to travel at peak times if I can help it.

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No, I meant (and said) that because there are no shops open, there are no people there to shop.

If the shops are not open it's guaranteed that there will be no-one around to shop in them.

You'd think it was obvious, but apparently not to the council.

 

I'm sure it's very obvious to the council! But the council don't have the power to simply open all the shops up and 'hey presto! Shoppers'! I'm really not sure what you're trying to add to this debate by simply pointing out that no one shops in the evening in town because none of the shops are open?! The question is why aren't they...

 

 

It would be the bare minimum to enable it. Arguably it would encourage it more than literally having no open shops to shop in. Which is not to say that it would suddenly become popular, but it would at least be possible.

How could they possibly measure a demand when everything is closed.

If you go and stand in town on a Wed evening at 1930 it's like a ghost town. So you might conclude that nobody wants to shop at 1930. Meadowhall would tell you a different picture though.

 

You're showing up just how much you're failing to grasp the concepts of market research and business risk with this paragraph. I'll wager that some of the biggest and most successful retailers in the country know what they're talking about and know how to do research. They ask people, they look at other cities, they don't just look out the window and decide, 'oh, there's no one about so no one wants to shop in the evening'.

 

And to suggest that they all just take a punt on opening late and hope people come shopping clearly doesn't take in to account the limited risk that retailers are willing to take and the research they do to establish that risk.

 

Meadowhall is a different place. The owners/retailers of Meadowhall knew that if they provided an undercover shopping centre with a variety of stores, by a motorway with free parking, that X number of people would shop in the evening, and that that number would make it financially viable to open. Sheffield city centre retailers clearly do not feel the same is currently true of the city centre, and so do not open late at this time.

 

 

Yes, it's certainly not as simple as opening the shops. But if the shops aren't open, I can guarantee that it will remain as it is now, empty in the evening.

 

Obviously...I'm still not sure what you're trying to add to this debate with that conclusion?

 

 

It's not chicken and egg. The shops very much have to come first, because people wanting to shop aren't going to wander around a closed city centre hoping that retailers notice them and open sometime in the next 6 months.

 

There are lots of other reasons people are in the city centre. People work and live in city centres, and if there were more people doing that in Sheffield then there would be more shops opening later. It's incremental. Sheffield's city centre residential and working populations are both on the rise, and we will see more retailers open later because of that. Things move slowly, gradually, incrementally towards having a centre with with more retail etc. in the evenings. Things like alive after 5 help, but are only a catalyst that speed along the long-term changes.

Edited by AndrewC

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You don't see what I'm trying to add, but this reply (which prompted my further reply) you totally see what it's adding do you?

 

Lex - Why don't the shops in town open regularly in the evenings?

Planner1 - Because there aren't enough customers to make it worth opening.

 

It's not a chicken and egg situation, we know exactly which one comes first, and it isn't customers wandering around a closed city centre. Which is the point I was making. There is 0 chance of customers in the city centre, whilst everything is closed.

 

Obviously retailers can measure latent demand in ways other than just looking out of the window of a closed store.

 

Here's a good question though, what are YOU trying to add to the debate, because spending time criticising my posts without contributing any content of your own seems like the definition of not adding anything. Oh, and fix your quotes.

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2017 at 14:08 ----------

 

Cyclone - if you look at my other posts on other threads you will see I have chosen to live where there are good transport links, I live just off junction 31 of the M1. It takes me less than twenty minutes to get to Wellbeck, about the same to get to Rotherham, a bit less to get to Worksop, twenty five minutes to get to Doncaster, just under half an hour to Retford and about half an hour or a shade more to Sheffield city centre.

 

I drive around seeing customers for my business so I often call in at shops as I'm passing. Hubby does the supermarket run as he likes to be even quicker than I do and he says I take too long reading all the labels.

 

I haven't shopped in Morrisons for a couple of years, had too many fresh things well in date that were off or contaminated. We supermarket shop at Tesco.

 

Edit - our butcher is in the next village. He used to deliver on his way home or let us call in early if we couldn't make shop hours.

 

I'm not really sure how this is related to a new development anymore.

 

You don't shop in the city centre because you live 25 miles away and prefer to shop as you drive around seeing clients.

Fine, it's not parking that's the problem, nor the available shops, it's convenience and desire.

Edited by Cyclone

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Lex - Why don't the shops in town open regularly in the evenings?

Planner1 - Because there aren't enough customers to make it worth opening.

 

Planner1 is referring to market research that retailers will have done to see IF they opened WOULD enough people use them (current answer: no). Not just 'of course no one shops; the shops aren't open. Why don't they just open?'.

 

It's not a chicken and egg situation, we know exactly which one comes first, and it isn't customers wandering around a closed city centre.

 

Wrong. Like I said, there actually ARE people in the city centre, workers, residents, there for other reasons. A worker finishes work at 5pm and asks themselves, 'I need to buy some clothes - why isn't H&M open?'. But there currently aren't enough people in that situation to warrant the shops opening (whilst remaining profitable).

 

 

Here's a good question though, what are YOU trying to add to the debate, because spending time criticising my posts without contributing any content of your own seems like the definition of not adding anything. Oh, and fix your quotes.

 

I have contributed opinions to this thread, you're just blind to it.

 

Quote tag fixed - sorry to have offended. Way to stick to the debate though, and not just attack my post without contributing.

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I think it is fairly anti-car, but parking isn't the issue, nor the cost of it.

That's exactly why I stopped going into the city centre. I don't find shopping high on my list of leisure activities. Shopping is essential to me. Its to be done as quick and easly as possible. I will travel to find something unique but I still want to park cheaply and get the item(s) bought and back home ASAP.

 

Ah this was why.

 

But it turns out that you prefer to shop as you travel around seeing clients. Parking, nor the cost of it is the issue. Being 25 miles outside Sheffield, that's a big part of it.

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2017 at 14:29 ----------

 

Planner1 is referring to market research that retailers will have done to see IF they opened WOULD enough people use them (current answer: no). Not just 'of course no one shops; the shops aren't open. Why don't they just open?'.

You're a mind reader now are you?

 

 

 

Wrong. Like I said, there actually ARE people in the city centre, workers, residents, there for other reasons. A worker finishes work at 5pm and asks themselves, 'I need to buy some clothes - why isn't H&M open?'. But there currently aren't enough people in that situation to warrant the shops opening (whilst remaining profitable).

I guess if YOU were ever in town at 5pm you'd know that most shops close at 6. So if you need to do a post work shop, you can. Personally I prefer lunch time.

And by 1800, it's a ghost town. Nobody is around because there's nothing open to keep them around. It's not wrong, I'll take a photo for you if you like. Or perhaps you take one and prove me wrong.

What makes you think that there aren't a lot of people working in the city centre?

 

 

 

I have contributed opinions to this thread, you're just blind to it.

 

Quote tag fixed - sorry to have offended. Way to stick to the debate though, and not just attack my post without contributing.

 

You seem to have spent much longer picking apart my assertion that people aren't in town because the shops are all closed than you've done anything else.

In fact it looks like you're happy to continue picking at it. Despite it actually being self evident. Perhaps it's the very self evident nature that upsets you.

Edited by Cyclone

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Cyclone you are not on form today, you are usually on the ball. :o

 

If there were 'nice' shops in the city centre within easy reach of parking I would shop there. We came all the way into the city centre a couple of weeks ago just to visit the coffee shop / café hubby had found on his specialist coffee forum. Admittedly we had already been to one customer and we were heading back to the office after lunch. We parked nearby, had coffee and lunch, bought coffee beans from them and went back to the office. If there were more (that we knew of) of interest we would be more likely to spend and shop more in the city.

 

Are you up to speed now? We don't like to mooch around town looking for shops. We like to shop then go home. There is nothing we would like more than to find more independent shops.

 

A few weeks prior to that we visited another coffee shop on the other side of town but still in the centre. We had been to see another customer a few streets away, bought a coffee and a sandwich, bought more coffee beans but this coffee shop also sold artisan bread so we bought some of that too.

 

It was a work day so we were seeing another customer that afternoon.

 

Are you getting my drift?

 

It would be useful if there was some sort of directory of independent food shops or all shops in town as I'm sure there are more in Sheffield than we know of. I usually trawl twitter or specialist food articles trying to find these types of shops.

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I don't know how you have arrived at that conclusion. :confused: Someone higher up the thread said people don't have a meal before or after something else in town. I was saying that I used to do this on a regular basis, perhaps once or twice a month, depending when the plays were as we attended all of them to get discounts.

 

As far as I'm aware, most towns or cities have expensive parking. The prices in Worksop and Rotherham used to be cheap but not now.

 

I don't mind walking to the shops from the car park but don't want to pay extra money for parking for the privilege of the extra walking distance. I prefer to park close, shop, then head home. I'm not really strong enough to carry lots of heavy bags a long distance now I don't do any manual work.

 

Personally, I don't think the car parking and roads are well thought through as part of the bigger picture.

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2017 at 11:29 ----------

 

 

There are various shops within the complex that was build on the site of the old town hall. These are craft and gift shops, not sure what else. There are several on the pedestrianised bit near high street. There are a few cake shops / cafes, a deli / café, two old fashioned sweet shops. A vintage shop, not sure if its all second hand or some new but I think its sells some new 'unusual clothing', too unusual for me LOL. There is the makers emporium (find it on Facebook or search engine) on high street too. An inexpensive independent picture framing shop on the edge of the market.

 

Worksop is about 60p an hour and plentiful. I do my banking there because I absolutely know I can park in one of two almost adjacent car parks any day, any time.

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