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Be prepared for a shock - No triple lock = No vote.

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I have no idea. It is the government who state it as a minimum. If they can't pay it how do they expect employers to pay it. If the government can't pay it they shouldn't quote a minimum.

 

Eh? I pay an employee to do something to help the business make money. I'm paying an old person, through my taxes for work (assuming they did and didn't retire at 50) they've done for someone else.

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Not allegedly, I am an engineer.

The wealth of this country was squandered by the corrupt government of the 1980's.

People since then seem to be living in some fantasy land, where wealth is created from nothing.

The only way to create wealth is from manufacturing and industry.

Manipulation of wealth by capitalism can only lead to extreme poverty.

It is a massive confidence trick.

Tell that to Microsoft ;)

 

The only way to create wealth is to sell something, whether a product or a service, for profit and actually get paid. Manufacturing and industry is only a subset of that.

 

Everything else stems from that, including any form of public expenditure howsoever (since there can be no public budgets, if no tax gets collected from the said profit).

 

Feel free to go all the way back to the antiquity if you need, to satisfy yourself of the above truism.

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Do you even know what the triple lock is?

 

How can it go down in real terms if it has to at least increase by inflation? They are only removing the minimum 2.5% aspect to move it to the double lock.

 

Classic Sheffield forum.

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Tell that to Microsoft ;)

 

The only way to create wealth is to sell something, whether a product or a service, for profit and actually get paid. Manufacturing and industry is only a subset of that.

 

Everything else stems from that, including any form of public expenditure howsoever (since there can be no public budgets, if no tax gets collected from the said profit).

 

Feel free to go all the way back to the antiquity if you need, to satisfy yourself of the above truism.

 

I do not know whether you are deliberately winding me up, but, Microsoft have manufactured a product.

Without it, the modern world could not function, so it has made a fortune.

It is not artificial wealth such as that the capitalists create.

 

You cannot compare Microsoft to Fanny and Freddie.

Well, I cant anyway.

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I do not know whether you are deliberately winding me up, but, Microsoft have manufactured a product.

Without it, the modern world could not function, so it has made a fortune.

It is not artificial wealth such as that the capitalists create.

 

You cannot compare Microsoft to Fanny and Freddie.

Well, I cant anyway.

 

Microsoft have not made a product. They wrote code and licence the rights to use that code - it's not a physical product you hold.

 

You could have a look at information services - Bloomberg for example. Or car servicing and maintenance - they make nothing but it's a profitable business. Most ways of making wealth are not to do with products - they are services. Doctors make few products but seem to make a fair chunk of money. Engineers and architects tell people how to build things, but they seem to clean up having never laid hands on the thing itself...

 

What is this "artificial wealth" then that "capitalists" create?

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Eh? I pay an employee to do something to help the business make money. I'm paying an old person, through my taxes for work (assuming they did and didn't retire at 50) they've done for someone else.

 

A minimum is a minimum. The government didn't segregate.

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Microsoft have not made a product. They wrote code and licence the rights to use that code - it's not a physical product you hold.

 

You could have a look at information services - Bloomberg for example. Or car servicing and maintenance - they make nothing but it's a profitable business. Most ways of making wealth are not to do with products - they are services. Doctors make few products but seem to make a fair chunk of money. Engineers and architects tell people how to build things, but they seem to clean up having never laid hands on the thing itself...

 

What is this "artificial wealth" then that "capitalists" create?

Your and my ideas of manufacturing are totally different.

By manufacturing I mean a product.

Doctors, in the main, produce well and healthy people, when given an ill person.

An Engineer creates a product to the requirements of whoever requests his services. Whether he or she builds it themselves, or employs others to do it, is bye the bye.

Both are wealth creators, as are the people supporting them.

 

Capitalists are just casino men, whose like can be found in any betting shop throughout the world. Spivs.

They are drones on wealth creators, the world could continue quite well, and better, come to that, without them.

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I do not know whether you are deliberately winding me up, but, Microsoft have manufactured a product.

Without it, the modern world could not function, so it has made a fortune.

It is not artificial wealth such as that the capitalists create.

I am not (trying to wind you up) and they have not as such: Microsoft create wealth from licensing their products (a service based on their software engineering effort), not from selling them.

 

Don't believe me? How much did you pay for your copy of Windows 10? ;)

 

I'm trying to open your eyes or, depending on how you see it, temper your unbridled ideolalism with some pragmatism. I'm an IP professional, I speak with engineers and their employers or backers all the time, and am intimately familiar with both creation (within an engineering sense) and wealth creation (selling that creation for monies, as one's product or another's under license). Because often as not, I have to first disabuse them of the notion that designing and then protecting something will get them riches...however selling loads of it profitably will :)

You cannot compare Microsoft to Fanny and Freddie.

Well, I cant anyway.

I didn't. That's your own strawman, right there. Edited by L00b
Typos, bloody iPad

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These days many have more than one pension,

 

Around 50% of pensioners today only get just the one state pension and some not even at the higher rate.

 

the state pension was only meant to be paid out for a few years after you retire;

 

No it wasn't, the state pension was to be paid till you died otherwise it would then have to be replaced with other forms of benefits.

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These days many have more than one pension, the state pension was only meant to be paid out for a few years after you retire; the forecast now is that many will live to 100

 

That is evolution.

But the human body is still not capable of hard manual work after the age of about 65 though.

To expect old people to do that kind of work is inhuman.

Also the brain slows down, and calculations, for instance, that were once second nature become slower.

As an engineer, I can still do the work, both as an engineer, and if necessary as a mechanic, but it takes me longer than a man in his thirties.

 

When I was a young man, we had no problem with looking after our old people, and admired them for the contribution they had made whilst they were young to our well being.

 

Why does this government suddenly want to encourage young people to despise older people?

 

There is something not right here.

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Just to calm all the anger at the glorious life us OAP's are living.

Remember, even with my other pensions taken into account, I am still on less than half of my working wage.

Not a problem for me, at least I don't have to go to work anymore.

But it still takes some getting used to.

 

So you young ones have nothing to be jealous of.

We must fight together, for if we allow them to divide us, we are as good as done.

 

---------- Post added 27-04-2017 at 16:22 ----------

 

 

Not allegedly, I am an engineer.

The wealth of this country was squandered by the corrupt government of the 1980's.

People since then seem to be living in some fantasy land, where wealth is created from nothing.

The only way to create wealth is from manufacturing and industry.

Manipulation of wealth by capitalism can only lead to extreme poverty.

It is a massive confidence trick.

 

Mmm you're right of course, but these days we have a financial system that can indeed create wealth out of nothing, and a whole host of very rich people who have never done a days work in their lives but just sit and watch their investments grow.

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Mmm you're right of course, but these days we have a financial system that can indeed create wealth out of nothing, and a whole host of very rich people who have never done a days work in their lives but just sit and watch their investments grow.

 

Like pensioners..........

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