It is now Two Thousand and Fifty .

[sgtkate 10]

The system has to provide people with pragmatic motivation to produce for society. The way you do that is to allow them to keep for themselves and their nearest and dearest, some of the proceeds of that productivity.

 

I think we are all drawn in some way to a society which does not reward ability, but effort. But the best we can do is reward achievement which depends on both effort and ability. You can get away with weakening the link between achievement and reward, but if you make it too weak then there is no longer sufficient link between effort and reward and society no longer functions.

 

Yes, I think we pretty much align (like most things to be fair) in our end point, we just differ like chalk and chesse as to how we get there!

[tinfoilhat 11]

It's fine, we all have ethical 'holes'. I will answer honestly:

 

Would I get my daughter into a grammar school? well yes, they are state run so my money wouldn't have anything to do with it.

Would I pay for her to go to a private school? No. Absolutely not.

Would I let her go to a private school if she got a full scholarship? Yes, probably.

Would I move solely on the basis of school catchment area? No.

Would I move partly on the basis of school catchment area? Possibly, depending on other factors.

 

Strangely, no, I don't really want to give her a leg-up financially. As I believe she'll be a better person in general by having to make her own way. Of course if she was in a complete financial mess or about to be homeless I'd step in, but only the minimum amount to stop the situation becoming harmful. I'm aware some people might not be able to afford even that so perhaps I'm already being a hypocrite.

 

Well you are being a tad hyprocrital about accepting a scholarship to private education and the benefits that they may (or may not) bring but not wanting to pay for it!

 

Youre probably right with the financial assistance though - to a point. Lord knows what houses will cost to buy - she could be one of penistones999 tennents!

[unbeliever 10]

Yes, I think we pretty much align (like most things to be fair) in our end point, we just differ like chalk and chesse as to how we get there!

 

You seem to want us all to feel the same love for, or at least commitment to, every single member of society as we do for our own families.

That's not realistic.

[petemcewan 27]

Obelix, Sgtkate ,and Unbeliver, et-al.

 

 

Considering that it will be the Millennials who will be in the driving seat. Will they push society into less competitive and a more cooperative social/economic arrangements ?

Will capitalism be the predominant economic system? Will birth control be embraced on a european scale ? Will science and medicine undergo a massive paradigm shift and head off in a more

Ayurvedic direction ?

 

With respect,just let your imagination run wild for a moment and see what you come up with.

Edited March 28, 2017 by petemcewan

[sgtkate 10]

You seem to want us all to feel the same love for, or at least commitment to, every single member of society as we do for our own families.

That's not realistic.

 

I don't think that's fair and it's not how I feel, it's a half selfish want in that I believe the next generation will grow up in better world with better lives if we look beyond our own nose and offspring when we try to be altruistic. Of course I don't feel the exact same commitment to people I don't know as we are all tribal in our DNA, but I do feel some and therefore I'd like to see the average standards of everyone improve more than just seeing my own childs standards improve.

 

---------- Post added 28-03-2017 at 15:20 ----------

 

Well you are being a tad hyprocrital about accepting a scholarship to private education and the benefits that they may (or may not) bring but not wanting to pay for it!

 

Youre probably right with the financial assistance though - to a point. Lord knows what houses will cost to buy - she could be one of penistones999 tennents!

 

Why is that hypocritical to let her get a scholarship at a private school? It's open to anyone to apply for an entrance exam and if they pass with flying colours then they get offered a free place. That's meritocracy in action isn't it? If some rich muppet's unintelligent offspring decides to pay £20k to effectively subsidise other peoples education who can't afford those fees but do have bright kids then I can't really see the issue with that. Equally, I'm not convinced I'd be happy for her to go to a private or grammar school for that matter, regardless of anything else, it's pretty clear from my posts that I want her to grow up with a well rounded and non-entitled view of the world and I strongly think that the social and ethical benefits she'd get from a state education outweigh the potential educational benefits of a private or grammar school, but it would all depend on the situation at the time.

 

---------- Post added 28-03-2017 at 15:25 ----------

 

Obelix, Sgtkate ,and Unbeliver, et-al.

 

 

Considering that it will be the Millennials who will be in the driving seat. Will they push society into less competitive and a more cooperative social/economic arrangements ?

Will capitalism be the predominant economic system? Will birth control be embraced on a european scale ?

 

With respect,just let your imagination run wild for a moment and see what you come up with.

 

Honestly, who knows? The thing is that humans are pathologically designed to want more and more and to hoard. A caveman hoarding could mean he can see through the winter. We don't *need* to hoard anymore for that reason but it's still in our design. The only way to counter this is for everyone to absolutely know and believe that they will never need for anything and that their needs will always be taken care of. To give a simplistic example, a baker puts loaves outside his shop saying 'free, please help yourself' and he refills as soon as it runs out. On day one, people come and take as many as they can carry, but then the next day he does that same thing. People again take loads each. But he keeps on doing it and after a few days people come and only take a loaf or 2 each because they realise that the loaves will be there every day so there is just no need to take more than what you need for a day. Apply the same logic to the world and greed vanishes for the most part. Once greed has started to wane only then can we address other things like the future lack of certain work, or even the need to work or the culture that says not working is a bad thing and so.

[unbeliever 10]

As a species we've always had instinct for serving the group and ourselves. It's about balance.

[tinfoilhat 11]

I don't think that's fair and it's not how I feel, it's a half selfish want in that I believe the next generation will grow up in better world with better lives if we look beyond our own nose and offspring when we try to be altruistic. Of course I don't feel the exact same commitment to people I don't know as we are all tribal in our DNA, but I do feel some and therefore I'd like to see the average standards of everyone improve more than just seeing my own childs standards improve.

 

---------- Post added 28-03-2017 at 15:20 ----------

 

 

Why is that hypocritical to let her get a scholarship at a private school? It's open to anyone to apply for an entrance exam and if they pass with flying colours then they get offered a free place. That's meritocracy in action isn't it? If some rich muppet's unintelligent offspring decides to pay £20k to effectively subsidise other peoples education who can't afford those fees but do have bright kids then I can't really see the issue with that. Equally, I'm not convinced I'd be happy for her to go to a private or grammar school for that matter, regardless of anything else, it's pretty clear from my posts that I want her to grow up with a well rounded and non-entitled view of the world and I strongly think that the social and ethical benefits she'd get from a state education outweigh the potential educational benefits of a private or grammar school, but it would all depend on the situation at the time.

 

---------- Post added 28-03-2017 at 15:25 ----------

 

 

Honestly, who knows? The thing is that humans are pathologically designed to want more and more and to hoard. A caveman hoarding could mean he can see through the winter. We don't *need* to hoard anymore for that reason but it's still in our design. The only way to counter this is for everyone to absolutely know and believe that they will never need for anything and that their needs will always be taken care of. To give a simplistic example, a baker puts loaves outside his shop saying 'free, please help yourself' and he refills as soon as it runs out. On day one, people come and take as many as they can carry, but then the next day he does that same thing. People again take loads each. But he keeps on doing it and after a few days people come and only take a loaf or 2 each because they realise that the loaves will be there every day so there is just no need to take more than what you need for a day. Apply the same logic to the world and greed vanishes for the most part. Once greed has started to wane only then can we address other things like the future lack of certain work, or even the need to work or the culture that says not working is a bad thing and so.

 

Do you think that the private school would exist if everybody got in on a scholarship? Are all rich people muppets or just the kids? I've read a report where (I can't find the source so don't ask;)) that state school kids do better at oxbridge - I think - it was a while ago.

 

But given your time at officer training I'm kind of surprised* you have such a low opinion of privately educated young people - from my experience if you just hung with state educated kids with regional accents your time would have been lonely.

 

*most of them I met there and cranwell were privileged, self righteous and frankly rude tossers , but my experience at a couple of public schools I've visited was the opposite. Polite, articulated a world apart from mumbling teen I was.

 

There's a point in there somewhere. I don't know what it is.

[Penistone999 10]

You have to recognise the legitimacy of personal property in order to understand.

 

Having invested time and effort and taken risks to acquire personal property and wealth it only matches one rather radical definition of "fair" for it to be confiscated upon death (much as in life).

The state has already taken their cut at the time the wealth was earned, upon death you think they should have whatever is left?

Such property and wealth should clearly go to whomever the former owner chooses to pass it on to?

 

Myself I shall take whatever steps are necessary to see that I continue to support my wife and my family from Valhalla rather than allowing the state to waste it on windmills.

 

I will be making sure all my assets are transferred to the kids before i croke it so they dont get the scrounging Taxman demanding inheritance tax.

[sgtkate 10]

Do you think that the private school would exist if everybody got in on a scholarship? Are all rich people muppets or just the kids? I've read a report where (I can't find the source so don't ask;)) that state school kids do better at oxbridge - I think - it was a while ago.

 

But given your time at officer training I'm kind of surprised* you have such a low opinion of privately educated young people - from my experience if you just hung with state educated kids with regional accents your time would have been lonely.

 

*most of them I met there and cranwell were privileged, self righteous and frankly rude tossers , but my experience at a couple of public schools I've visited was the opposite. Polite, articulated a world apart from mumbling teen I was.

 

There's a point in there somewhere. I don't know what it is.

 

I've been fairly open on here about my background, so I am privately educated. I got a scholarship as my parents aren't rich, we weren't poverty stricken either, but not in anyway able to pay private school fees. My school was a genuine charity, over half the students there were on scholarships or assisted places as the school relied on donations from ex-students to help cover funding gaps. It was a school for bright pupils and not rich ones if that makes any sense? The rich ones were simply fleeced for the pleasure of attending. Of course not all rich kids are muppets, same as not all poor ones are bright I was just saying that if a rich parent wants to subsidise education for poorer pupils then carry on. So my experience of private school was largely excellent as I spent time with a very wide range of kids with vastly different backgrounds, I full accept most private schools are not like this at all hence why I'm not sure I'd be happy with with kid going to one.

 

I don't have a low view of privately educated people at all, I just don't think it's the be all and end of that's it. Strangely going to army college coming from a private school made me the massive exception. Less than 10% of us came from private schools.

 

---------- Post added 28-03-2017 at 16:03 ----------

 

I will be making sure all my assets are transferred to the kids before i croke it so they dont get the scrounging Taxman demanding inheritance tax.

 

Lets hope you die within 5 years of doing that then so the taxman can indeed trace and locate all your attempts to avoid paying it more easily and likely get even more from your estate than if you'd just accepted it as part and parcel of living in a free, safe and amazing country that you've milked within an inch of it's life whilst giving nothing back.

[Penistone999 10]

 

Lets hope you die within 5 years of doing that then so the taxman can indeed trace and locate all your attempts to avoid paying it more easily and likely get even more from your estate than if you'd just accepted it as part and parcel of living in a free, safe and amazing country that you've milked within an inch of it's life whilst giving nothing back.

 

I pay plenty of Tax ,so when i get the chance to get a little back , i take it.

[sgtkate 10]

I pay plenty of Tax ,so when i get the chance to get a little back , i take it.

 

By opening admitting to tax evasion, but yet having children as your post implies which makes you almost certainly a net cost to society unless you really do make a fortune through your property empire.

[Justin Smith 10]

What given to your family without tax?

 

Why should someone inherit a property, in fact any significant amount of money, without paying any tax on it, when they haven`t done a shred of work for it, when the rest of us have to pay shed loads of tax for money we earn by working ? And the argument that it`s already had the tax paid on it is not logical, double tax is an everyday occurrence for all of us. You buy something with your taxed income, and pay VAT on it. So why should there be a different rule so some spoilt kid can get a free house and pay no tax on it.....