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The Consequences of Brexit (part 3)

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That whole Spanish veto Gibraltar thing is an inconsequential side-show. The real show is the post-Brexit EU-UK trade relationship: May & Davis wouldn't bat an eyelid at passing 40,000 Gibraltese under the economic bus wheels for the sake of 60m Brits.

 

 

May doesn't give 2 hoots about Gibraltarians, but it'll be solely whether it's military benefits outweigh the potential costs to us to keep it against Spain's wishes and veto...

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May doesn't give 2 hoots about Gibraltarians, but it'll be solely whether it's military benefits outweigh the potential costs to us to keep it against Spain's wishes and veto...
There's nothing to stop the UK maintaining a military presence there after Brexit, irrespective of whether Spain vetoes the applicability of the UK-EU trade deal to Gibraltar or not.

 

Don't let Michael Howard's jingoistic nonsense confuse you: the military/strategic angle is wholly, completely and absolutely irrelevant.

 

The veto is not about "making Gibraltar Spanish", or impacting Gibraltar's sovereignty in any way, it's simply about Spain agreeing to the post-Brexit UK-EU trading arrangement applying in Gibraltar, or not. Which Spain is fully entitled to demand, since it sits on the other side of the table and has its own socio-economic priorities in its region neighbouring Gibraltar.

 

But a hard border between Gibraltar and Spain, to the 10,000 commuters crossing it twice daily, is very much relevant.

 

May and her 3 Brexiteers should have seen that one coming a mile off. I'm not the littlest surprised that either they haven't or, if they have, that clearly they don't care.

 

Expect loads more, where that one came from.

Edited by L00b

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We can't have the same benefits being out of the EU than being in it. :confused:

 

Au contraire ! The Leave campaign was quite specific, we can "because we`re more important that Switzerland". I actually think this is going to be the most significant lie they told, more so that the NHS £350 million a week thing. As I`ve said already, I can`t wait to see what excuses the Brexiteers come out with, assuming we don`t get the promised excellent (heavily implied as good as now) free trade deal.

 

This bears repetition :

 

Let`s come to an agreement shall we [in answer to Brexiteers] ? If the UK gets its free trade deal and it doesn`t cost them anything so the NHS can get its promised £350 million a week, you quote this post and I`ll publically apologise. In fact you can PM me if I don`t see the post where you ask me to do that. Don`t get me wrong I`ll still think leaving the EU was the wrong decision because for me it`s not just about the economy, but I`ll apologise for calling the close referendum result a democratic farce.

But on the other hand, if the UK gets neither the promised free trade deal nor the NHS gets its £350 million a week, will you apologise ? Because, let`s face it, if people didn`t believe that`s what we`d get the referendum result would definitely have been different, and you know that`s true just as much as I do, after all only 2% would have had to vote the other way.

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There's nothing to stop the UK maintaining a military presence there after Brexit, irrespective of whether Spain vetoes the applicability of the UK-EU trade deal to Gibraltar or not.

 

Don't let Michael Howard's jingoistic nonsense confuse you: the military/strategic angle is wholly, completely and absolutely irrelevant.

 

The veto is not about "making Gibraltar Spanish", or impacting Gibraltar's sovereignty in any way, it's simply about Spain agreeing to the post-Brexit UK-EU trading arrangement applying in Gibraltar, or not. Which Spain is fully entitled to demand, since it sits on the other side of the table and has its own socio-economic priorities in its region neighbouring Gibraltar.

 

But a hard border between Gibraltar and Spain, to the 10,000 commuters crossing it twice daily, is very much relevant.

 

May and her 3 Brexiteers should have seen that one coming a mile off. I'm not the littlest surprised that either they haven't or, if they have, that clearly they don't care.

 

Expect loads more, where that one came from.

 

Ah, well fair enough, I had a feeling there was more to this than met the eye, that Spain was pushing again for a shared governance deal over Gibraltar and would screw the UK over to gain it.

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There's nothing to stop the UK maintaining a military presence there after Brexit, irrespective of whether Spain vetoes the applicability of the UK-EU trade deal to Gibraltar or not.

 

Don't let Michael Howard's jingoistic nonsense confuse you: the military/strategic angle is wholly, completely and absolutely irrelevant.

 

The veto is not about "making Gibraltar Spanish", or impacting Gibraltar's sovereignty in any way, it's simply about Spain agreeing to the post-Brexit UK-EU trading arrangement applying in Gibraltar, or not. Which Spain is fully entitled to demand, since it sits on the other side of the table and has its own socio-economic priorities in its region neighbouring Gibraltar.

 

But a hard border between Gibraltar and Spain, to the 10,000 commuters crossing it twice daily, is very much relevant.

 

May and her 3 Brexiteers should have seen that one coming a mile off. I'm not the littlest surprised that either they haven't or, if they have, that clearly they don't care.

 

Expect loads more, where that one came from.

 

Channel islands being the other obvious one where there will be a bit of friction I expect.

 

Also where are we going to have the proper hard border on the Tunnel?

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Ah, well fair enough, I had a feeling there was more to this than met the eye, that Spain was pushing again for a shared governance deal over Gibraltar and would screw the UK over to gain it.
Leavers just wavy-handed the problem away beforehand, e.g. see here from #4357, and here from #4371 (the "Gibraltar question" has come up a few times before, chalga and I discussed it on 24 June 2016 in the original Brexit consequences thread ('mk1')).

 

Now that Article 50 has been triggered, they have to deal with it. There's a container-load or 10 of similarly theoretical-turned-real issues waiting to be dealt with. And I have zero doubt that the EU27 will be consistently and self-servingly misrepresented by the Leavers as the bad guys punishing the UK on the model of Howard's imbecilic rant at the weekend.

 

So, well, be ready for it, and for using your brain power to pierce the fog of Leavers' rubbish once more :)

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Whether they pass your "scrutiny' or not they exist. This line of discussion is useless.

 

Not my scrutiny, scrutiny under the basic rules of logic and good sense.

Still, if that is the way you want it then I formally accept your list of reasons as follows:

 

.

.

.

Edited by Hairyloon

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Channel islands being the other obvious one where there will be a bit of friction I expect.

 

Also where are we going to have the proper hard border on the Tunnel?

 

I am old enough to remember the "good old days" when we had our sovereignty and I had to fill in ATA customs carnets just to get my research equipment in and out of Europe how easy it was when we joined. As for the hard border, Dover are already working on it and expecting Operation Stack every day, the old Manston Airport is contracted to park the trucks. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/20/post-brexit-customs-gridlock-could-choke-uk-trade-experts-warn

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Also where are we going to have the proper hard border on the Tunnel?
Acres of space adjacent the terminal areas in Folkestone.

 

But as the people of Coquelles could tell from about 2 decades' worth of coalface experience, it's one thing to put up mile upon mile of tall fences topped by razor wire...and quite another to make them fully impervious to leaks ;)

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Acres of space adjacent the terminal areas in Folkestone.

 

But as the people of Coquelles could tell from about 2 decades' worth of coalface experience, it's one thing to put up mile upon mile of tall fences topped by razor wire...and quite another to make them fully impervious to leaks ;)

 

We're going to build a great, big, beautiful wall. And the French are gonna pay for it! ;)

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Au contraire ! The Leave campaign was quite specific, we can "because we`re more important that Switzerland". I actually think this is going to be the most significant lie they told, more so that the NHS £350 million a week thing. As I`ve said already, I can`t wait to see what excuses the Brexiteers come out with, assuming we don`t get the promised excellent (heavily implied as good as now) free trade deal.

 

This bears repetition :

 

For goodness sake, try to find a different drum to beat.

You really are becoming boring!

As someone said " if you have nothing positive to add, say nothing "

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For goodness sake, try to find a different drum to beat.

You really are becoming boring!

If any of you were to actually address the points, then we would not need to keep banging on at them.

 

Do you perhaps want to add to the official list of reasons for leaving:

.

.

.

Edited by Hairyloon

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