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The Consequences of Brexit (part 3)

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Looks like most did and the conservatives are back in.

 

With a reduced majority, a hung parliament, and being forced into a pact with a bigoted sectarian party in contravention of an international treaty lodged with the UN by both the British and Irish governments.

 

So it would appear that maybe the electorate aren't entirely convinced by May's meaningless platitudes " Brexit means Brexit " and " No deal is better than a bad deal " .

 

If you missed this when I posted it earlier it's an interesting viewpoint with some truth whether we like it or not.

 

http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nybooks.com%2Fdaily%2F2017%2F06%2F10%2Fbritain-the-end-of-a-fantasy%2F%3ADvu6idk4Mt2zQqoIY2oyUbMFiBI&cuid=3093723

 

---------- Post added 17-06-2017 at 09:37 ----------

 

They are supposed to use their best judgement to decide what is best for the country.

 

The famous speech by Edmund Burke on the subject is hard to fault.

 

 

 

Cameron should have that put on his gravestone, but how many times now have we done the "knew what they were voting for" debate?

If we must do it again, can we perhaps start a new thread and nail down the salient points?

 

I posted Burkes quote yesterday in post number 3217 in a reply to you, did you miss it?

 

No point in a new thread, Brexiteers won't admit that they hadn't a clue what they were voting for especially now its looking dire.

 

I've posted the facts that I used to reach my decision to vote remain on at least two occasions and requested that Brexiteers provide me with the facts they used that persuaded them to vote leave.

 

Answer came there none, because they have no facts, only uninformed opinion.

 

Let me predict what's going to happen next, probably starting Monday and proceeding for the next number of years.

 

Brexiteers are going to start whining that we are being 'punished' by the EU.

 

What is actually going to happen is in fact standard negotiation tactics as practiced every day in the business world.

 

Both sides looking for advantage for themselves and the weaker hand gaining less than the stronger.

 

We have the weaker hand, we export more to the EU than they do to us and we import 40% of our food and 40% of our fuel which we are currently purchasing with a devalued pound.

 

It was our decision to place ourselves in this position but it's all going to be the EU's fault.

Edited by Carlinate

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If you missed this when I posted it earlier it's an interesting viewpoint with some truth whether we like it or not.

 

http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nybooks.com%2Fdaily%2F2017%2F06%2F10%2Fbritain-the-end-of-a-fantasy%2F%3ADvu6idk4Mt2zQqoIY2oyUbMFiBI&cuid=3093723

 

Good article, thank you.

 

I posted Burkes quote yesterday in post number 3217 in a reply to you, did you miss it?

 

You don't think the speech good enough to warrant posting twice?

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Good article, thank you.

 

 

 

You don't think the speech good enough to warrant posting twice?

 

No problem, makes interesting reading.

 

The speech is indeed worth posting in its entirety, I only posted the salient point he made about how a representative had to use his/her own judgement or be remiss in their duty to the electorate.

 

Which is what our lot have just done.

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With a reduced majority, a hung parliament, and being forced into a pact with a bigoted sectarian party in contravention of an international treaty lodged with the UN by both the British and Irish governments.

 

So it would appear that maybe the electorate aren't entirely convinced by May's meaningless platitudes " Brexit means Brexit " and " No deal is better than a bad deal " .

 

If you missed this when I posted it earlier it's an interesting viewpoint with some truth whether we like it or not.

 

http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nybooks.com%2Fdaily%2F2017%2F06%2F10%2Fbritain-the-end-of-a-fantasy%2F%3ADvu6idk4Mt2zQqoIY2oyUbMFiBI&cuid=3093723

 

---------- Post added 17-06-2017 at 09:37 ----------

 

 

I posted Burkes quote yesterday in post number 3217 in a reply to you, did you miss it?

 

No point in a new thread, Brexiteers won't admit that they hadn't a clue what they were voting for especially now its looking dire.

 

I've posted the facts that I used to reach my decision to vote remain on at least two occasions and requested that Brexiteers provide me with the facts they used that persuaded them to vote leave.

 

Answer came there none, because they have no facts, only uninformed opinion.

 

Let me predict what's going to happen next, probably starting Monday and proceeding for the next number of years.

 

Brexiteers are going to start whining that we are being 'punished' by the EU.

 

What is actually going to happen is in fact standard negotiation tactics as practiced every day in the business world.

 

Both sides looking for advantage for themselves and the weaker hand gaining less than the stronger.

 

We have the weaker hand, we export more to the EU than they do to us and we import 40% of our food and 40% of our fuel which we are currently purchasing with a devalued pound.

 

It was our decision to place ourselves in this position but it's all going to be the EU's fault.

 

makes you wonder why we have a trade deficit with the EU:rolleyes:

 

Remainers lost in the referendum and lost in the election get over it.

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makes you wonder why we have a trade deficit with the EU:rolleyes:

 

Remainers lost in the referendum and lost in the election get over it.

 

Not one single EU member has the UK as its main trading partner. Only three, Ireland, Poland and Cyprus have the UK as a second trading partner.

 

In other words the EU is our main trading partner, but we are not its main trading partner, and we are not in that position with any other of the 27 EU countries, that's the problem with dealing as a single entity in opposition to a group.

 

We import £18 Billion from other EU countries,unless we are able to carry on regardless without that material then we are going to continue to require it.

 

We are also having to buy it with a devalued pound, how does that place us in a strong position? :rolleyes:

 

Brexiteers with their ill-informed grasp on the real world have damaged this country and we are all going to be worse off as a result.

 

And you won't be able to get over it.

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Not one single EU member has the UK as its main trading partner. Only three, Ireland, Poland and Cyprus have the UK as a second trading partner.

 

In other words the EU is our main trading partner, but we are not its main trading partner, and we are not in that position with any other of the 27 EU countries, that's the problem with dealing as a single entity in opposition to a group.

 

We import £18 Billion from other EU countries,unless we are able to carry on regardless without that material then we are going to continue to require it.

We are also having to buy it with a devalued pound, how does that place us in a strong position? :rolleyes:

 

Brexiteers with their ill-informed grasp on the real world have damaged this country and we are all going to be worse off as a result.

 

And you won't be able to get over it.

 

The EU is not the only shopping centre:rolleyes:

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What parliament has done in the Brexit debate is abrogate its responsibility to the generally uninformed.

 

It was the generally uninformed that kept us in last time though. The whole point of a referendum is to invite the general public to making a choice without the possibility of being misrepresented by an MP.

It isn't the same as represented democracy whereby the MP acts on behalf (or should).

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It was the generally uninformed that kept us in last time though.

 

As I recall, they made more of a point about informing the uninformed that time. And less of a point of misinforming the uninformed.

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It was the generally uninformed that kept us in last time though.

 

And what facts do you base that assertion on - the assertion that they were uninformed?

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The EU is not the only shopping centre:rolleyes:

 

No it isn't, and with our monopoly money and their knowledge of the situation that we've placed ourselves in, I'm sure we'll be able to drive a hard bargain. :roll:

 

Good luck with buying your Mercedes, BMW and Audi's elsewhere.

 

The electricity which we import from France and the Netherlands might be a bit of a problem too.

 

As the French own a considerable share of our power supply industry through EDF ( and the Chinese and South Koreans are getting in on the act ) we are reliant on outside forces anyway, it's the way of the world today, and no amount of 'Little Englander' wishful thinking will alter that.

 

The Hinkley Point construction is to be paid for by the French state owned EDF and the Chinese state owned CGN.

 

The British car industry is owned by foreign countries.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjlztSu7MTUAhUBD8AKHfElB78QFgh5MA4&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.borro.com%2Fuk%2Fborro-blog%2Fbritish-car-brands-owners&usg=AFQjCNESjzTYjw8_hVG_ANiXqMSHrLK1Ag

 

The British steel industry has been owned by foreign owners ranging from Swedes, Finns and Indians for some years.

 

Our shipbuilding industry went down the plughole years ago together with our mining industry.

 

All of this took place on the watch of those people in the 'establishment' that Brexiteers wanted to 'Take back control ' for.

 

Did you think it through?

 

What am I saying? Of course you didn't.

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No it isn't, and with our monopoly money and their knowledge of the situation that we've placed ourselves in, I'm sure we'll be able to drive a hard bargain. :roll:

 

Good luck with buying your Mercedes, BMW and Audi's elsewhere.

 

The electricity which we import from France and the Netherlands might be a bit of a problem too.

 

As the French own a considerable share of our power supply industry through EDF ( and the Chinese and South Koreans are getting in on the act ) we are reliant on outside forces anyway, it's the way of the world today, and no amount of 'Little Englander' wishful thinking will alter that.

 

The Hinkley Point construction is to be paid for by the French state owned EDF and the Chinese state owned CGN.

 

The British car industry is owned by foreign countries.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjlztSu7MTUAhUBD8AKHfElB78QFgh5MA4&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.borro.com%2Fuk%2Fborro-blog%2Fbritish-car-brands-owners&usg=AFQjCNESjzTYjw8_hVG_ANiXqMSHrLK1Ag

 

The British steel industry has been owned by foreign owners ranging from Swedes, Finns and Indians for some years.

 

Our shipbuilding industry went down the plughole years ago together with our mining industry.

 

All of this took place on the watch of those people in the 'establishment' that Brexiteers wanted to 'Take back control ' for.

 

Did you think it through?

 

What am I saying? Of course you didn't.

 

I'm sure they won't miss our trade:rolleyes:

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I'm sure they won't miss our trade:rolleyes:

 

You really don't get it do you?

 

Yes, they will hopefully be pragmatic and do a deal which we can live with, but it won't be as good as what we have now.

 

If it was it would make membership of the EU meaningless, and the rest of the countries involved are pro the EU whilst recognizing its faults.

 

None of them are daft enough to damage their economy to 'take back control' which they couldn't achieve anyway.

 

Any agreement we reach will come with terms and conditions as part of the deal.

 

We are going to end up worse off economically and with no input or power of veto over future EU proposals.

 

Because our imports are spread between 27 different countries we don't have the bargaining power that some people seem to think we have.

 

If the EU really wanted to do us serious harm they could do so. Yes it would cause them a little discomfort spread by 27 but they are the wealthiest Trade Bloc on the planet and could handle it.

 

We couldn't, we export 44% of our products and services to them and some of our imports from them are vital to keep the lights on and business going.

 

On Monday we are going to start negotiations with no clear plan of action and with David Davis, Baroness Anelay of St Johns, Robin Walker and Steve Baker representing our interests.

 

No, I have no idea who the last three are either, and no faith in Davis being able to find his way to the meeting room on time with a clean shirt on.

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