The Consequences of Brexit (part 3)

[apelike 10]

The referendum was advisory only,

 

Yes it was and because of that advise the government decided to act on it. Just because you dont like the outcome you seem to think that the advise should not have been acted upon. Advise as you know, may or may not be acted upon, and in this case it was acted upon.

 

Again I remind you of the governments remain position and that the leaflet sent to all households stated the position very clearly "The Government will implement what you decide."

 

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 22:56 ----------

 

Your parents didn't vote for a eu that we finished up with,no one knew it would end up like this that far back.

 

Very true and the final nail was the signing and ratification of the Maastricht Treaty, the one Treaty that cannot be altered by any sovereign country.

Edited June 16, 2017 by apelike

[Carlinate 10]

Yes............

 

unlike you who seems happy to have the country ruled by those who don't like us, never did, tried to keep the UK out in the first place, but saw the money they could extort, and plenty of useful idiots who were easily fooled, seems like some still are, are you one of those?

 

The country ruled by those who don't like us?

 

First of all the EU does not rule this country, or any of the other member countries, every one of them has a veto and can overrule any EU proposal.

 

The EU took ten years attempting to agree a trade deal with Canada, the majority of other countries in the EU wanted to accept it, but Romania, a country that has only been a member since 2007, vetoed the deal because it didn't like its visa arrangement with Canada.

 

You really don't understand the way the EU works do you?

 

The EU is its members, we are the EU.

 

As for not liking us, they appear to have more regard for us than Westminster. The EU wanted to bring in tariffs to protect the steel industry and Britain vetoed it in order to suck up to China and its investment potential for the City of London.

 

The people who don't have any regard for us in this part of the country are those in Westminster. All they care about is the South East and the City of London financial sector.

 

Brexiteers have placed us at the mercy of those people and we will pay the price.

 

Don't believe it?

 

Take a look at the former Chancellors father in laws view of people who don't live in the Home Counties.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjpu-HGtsPUAhXsKMAKHZVBBBAQFghCMAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.standard.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fgeorge-osbornes-father-in-law-repeats-his-frack-in-north-outburst-9368522.html&usg=AFQjCNGUR6-ee--UGBnp55rL5JB6ewEtEg

 

There are definitely people with nothing but contempt for people in this part of the country but they aren't from mainland Europe.

 

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 23:51 ----------

 

You miss the point: they would, in effect have had to stand up and own up to it.

 

No, they would simply have had to remind people that it was advisory, and that parliament is sovereign ( something that Brexiteers were worried about in a EU context ) and showed some balls.

 

As they haven't got any, we are where we are.

 

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 23:58 ----------

 

Yes it was and because of that advise the government decided to act on it. Just because you dont like the outcome you seem to think that the advise should not have been acted upon. Advise as you know, may or may not be acted upon, and in this case it was acted upon.

 

Again I remind you of the governments remain position and that the leaflet sent to all households stated the position very clearly "The Government will implement what you decide."

 

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 22:56 ----------

 

 

 

And I remind you that the majority of politicians elected to parliament were for Remain.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi_wK_QusPUAhXkAcAKHSulB4cQFgg0MAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-politics-eu-referendum-35616946&usg=AFQjCNGQyDCQqiE132c_7--CFw8H_RZaiQ

 

Unfortunately self interest and their wish to keep receiving the salary, expenses and perks, was more important to them than their duty to the country.

[apelike 10]

---------- Post added 16-06-2017 at 23:58 ----------

 

And I remind you that the majority of politicians elected to parliament were for Remain.

 

That may be so but they carried out the Democratic wish of the majority of the people they represent, as they also did in 1975 when the vote was to stay.

 

From the Parliament UK website:

 

"The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons."

 

Whether the MP's own interests were for Remain does not matter in the overall scheme of things.

[Hairyloon 10]

It is so sad that so many do not understand the basic principles of representative democracy.

[silentP 10]

It is so sad that so many do not understand the basic principles of representative democracy.

 

What would be your interpretation of it then?

[Carlinate 10]

That may be so but they carried out the Democratic wish of the majority of the people they represent, as they also did in 1975 when the vote was to stay.

 

From the Parliament UK website:

 

"The UK public elects Members of Parliament (MPs) to represent their interests and concerns in the House of Commons."

 

Whether the MP's own interests were for Remain does not matter in the overall scheme of things.

 

Would you care to explain exactly how an MP is supposed to represent the interests of everyone who voted for him/her?

 

In the Heeley constituency at the last election 26,500 people voted Labour. Are you trying to say that every single one of them wanted exactly the same outcome with regard to Brexit?

 

If you vote for a particular party are you supposed to mindmeld with every other voter and all resort to group think?

 

The whole point of appointing a political representative is so that they can apprise themselves of the intricacies of a particular subject and arrive at a decision based upon their acquired knowledge and then vote in the best interest of the country and their constituents as they see it.

 

As a voter you hope and trust that your representative has sufficient intelligence and knowledge to make the decision on your behalf.

 

You may not necessarily agree with every decision but you need to accept that your MP is payed to know more about the subject than you.

 

If you don't like it then you are free to vote for someone else at the next opportunity.

 

What parliament has done in the Brexit debate is abrogate its responsibility to the generally uninformed.

[retep 68]

Would you care to explain exactly how an MP is supposed to represent the interests of everyone who voted for him/her?

 

In the Heeley constituency at the last election 26,500 people voted Labour. Are you trying to say that every single one of them wanted exactly the same outcome with regard to Brexit?

 

If you vote for a particular party are you supposed to mindmeld with every other voter and all resort to group think?

 

The whole point of appointing a political representative is so that they can apprise themselves of the intricacies of a particular subject and arrive at a decision based upon their acquired knowledge and then vote in the best interest of the country and their constituents as they see it.

 

As a voter you hope and trust that your representative has sufficient intelligence and knowledge to make the decision on your behalf.

 

You may not necessarily agree with every decision but you need to accept that your MP is payed to know more about the subject than you.

 

If you don't like it then you are free to vote for someone else at the next opportunity.

 

What parliament has done in the Brexit debate is abrogate its responsibility to the generally uninformed.

 

Looks like most did and the conservatives are back in.

[Hairyloon 10]

Would you care to explain exactly how an MP is supposed to represent the interests of everyone who voted for him/her?

 

They are supposed to use their best judgement to decide what is best for the country.

 

The famous speech by Edmund Burke on the subject is hard to fault.

 

What parliament has done in the Brexit debate is abrogate its responsibility to the generally uninformed.

 

Cameron should have that put on his gravestone, but how many times now have we done the "knew what they were voting for" debate?

If we must do it again, can we perhaps start a new thread and nail down the salient points?

[Carlinate 10]

Looks like most did and the conservatives are back in.

 

With a reduced majority, a hung parliament, and being forced into a pact with a bigoted sectarian party in contravention of an international treaty lodged with the UN by both the British and Irish governments.

 

So it would appear that maybe the electorate aren't entirely convinced by May's meaningless platitudes " Brexit means Brexit " and " No deal is better than a bad deal " .

 

If you missed this when I posted it earlier it's an interesting viewpoint with some truth whether we like it or not.

 

http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nybooks.com%2Fdaily%2F2017%2F06%2F10%2Fbritain-the-end-of-a-fantasy%2F%3ADvu6idk4Mt2zQqoIY2oyUbMFiBI&cuid=3093723

 

---------- Post added 17-06-2017 at 09:37 ----------

 

They are supposed to use their best judgement to decide what is best for the country.

 

The famous speech by Edmund Burke on the subject is hard to fault.

 

 

 

Cameron should have that put on his gravestone, but how many times now have we done the "knew what they were voting for" debate?

If we must do it again, can we perhaps start a new thread and nail down the salient points?

 

I posted Burkes quote yesterday in post number 3217 in a reply to you, did you miss it?

 

No point in a new thread, Brexiteers won't admit that they hadn't a clue what they were voting for especially now its looking dire.

 

I've posted the facts that I used to reach my decision to vote remain on at least two occasions and requested that Brexiteers provide me with the facts they used that persuaded them to vote leave.

 

Answer came there none, because they have no facts, only uninformed opinion.

 

Let me predict what's going to happen next, probably starting Monday and proceeding for the next number of years.

 

Brexiteers are going to start whining that we are being 'punished' by the EU.

 

What is actually going to happen is in fact standard negotiation tactics as practiced every day in the business world.

 

Both sides looking for advantage for themselves and the weaker hand gaining less than the stronger.

 

We have the weaker hand, we export more to the EU than they do to us and we import 40% of our food and 40% of our fuel which we are currently purchasing with a devalued pound.

 

It was our decision to place ourselves in this position but it's all going to be the EU's fault.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Carlinate

[Hairyloon 10]

If you missed this when I posted it earlier it's an interesting viewpoint with some truth whether we like it or not.

 

http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nybooks.com%2Fdaily%2F2017%2F06%2F10%2Fbritain-the-end-of-a-fantasy%2F%3ADvu6idk4Mt2zQqoIY2oyUbMFiBI&cuid=3093723

 

Good article, thank you.

 

I posted Burkes quote yesterday in post number 3217 in a reply to you, did you miss it?

 

You don't think the speech good enough to warrant posting twice?

[Carlinate 10]

Good article, thank you.

 

 

 

You don't think the speech good enough to warrant posting twice?

 

No problem, makes interesting reading.

 

The speech is indeed worth posting in its entirety, I only posted the salient point he made about how a representative had to use his/her own judgement or be remiss in their duty to the electorate.

 

Which is what our lot have just done.

[retep 68]

With a reduced majority, a hung parliament, and being forced into a pact with a bigoted sectarian party in contravention of an international treaty lodged with the UN by both the British and Irish governments.

 

So it would appear that maybe the electorate aren't entirely convinced by May's meaningless platitudes " Brexit means Brexit " and " No deal is better than a bad deal " .

 

If you missed this when I posted it earlier it's an interesting viewpoint with some truth whether we like it or not.

 

http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nybooks.com%2Fdaily%2F2017%2F06%2F10%2Fbritain-the-end-of-a-fantasy%2F%3ADvu6idk4Mt2zQqoIY2oyUbMFiBI&cuid=3093723

 

---------- Post added 17-06-2017 at 09:37 ----------

 

 

I posted Burkes quote yesterday in post number 3217 in a reply to you, did you miss it?

 

No point in a new thread, Brexiteers won't admit that they hadn't a clue what they were voting for especially now its looking dire.

 

I've posted the facts that I used to reach my decision to vote remain on at least two occasions and requested that Brexiteers provide me with the facts they used that persuaded them to vote leave.

 

Answer came there none, because they have no facts, only uninformed opinion.

 

Let me predict what's going to happen next, probably starting Monday and proceeding for the next number of years.

 

Brexiteers are going to start whining that we are being 'punished' by the EU.

 

What is actually going to happen is in fact standard negotiation tactics as practiced every day in the business world.

 

Both sides looking for advantage for themselves and the weaker hand gaining less than the stronger.

 

We have the weaker hand, we export more to the EU than they do to us and we import 40% of our food and 40% of our fuel which we are currently purchasing with a devalued pound.

 

It was our decision to place ourselves in this position but it's all going to be the EU's fault.

 

makes you wonder why we have a trade deficit with the EU:rolleyes:

 

Remainers lost in the referendum and lost in the election get over it.