The Consequences of Brexit (part 3)

[Justin Smith 10]

We can't have the same benefits being out of the EU than being in it.

 

Au contraire ! The Leave campaign was quite specific, we can "because we`re more important that Switzerland". I actually think this is going to be the most significant lie they told, more so that the NHS £350 million a week thing. As I`ve said already, I can`t wait to see what excuses the Brexiteers come out with, assuming we don`t get the promised excellent (heavily implied as good as now) free trade deal.

 

This bears repetition :

 

Let`s come to an agreement shall we [in answer to Brexiteers] ? If the UK gets its free trade deal and it doesn`t cost them anything so the NHS can get its promised £350 million a week, you quote this post and I`ll publically apologise. In fact you can PM me if I don`t see the post where you ask me to do that. Don`t get me wrong I`ll still think leaving the EU was the wrong decision because for me it`s not just about the economy, but I`ll apologise for calling the close referendum result a democratic farce.

But on the other hand, if the UK gets neither the promised free trade deal nor the NHS gets its £350 million a week, will you apologise ? Because, let`s face it, if people didn`t believe that`s what we`d get the referendum result would definitely have been different, and you know that`s true just as much as I do, after all only 2% would have had to vote the other way.

[sgtkate 10]

There's nothing to stop the UK maintaining a military presence there after Brexit, irrespective of whether Spain vetoes the applicability of the UK-EU trade deal to Gibraltar or not.

 

Don't let Michael Howard's jingoistic nonsense confuse you: the military/strategic angle is wholly, completely and absolutely irrelevant.

 

The veto is not about "making Gibraltar Spanish", or impacting Gibraltar's sovereignty in any way, it's simply about Spain agreeing to the post-Brexit UK-EU trading arrangement applying in Gibraltar, or not. Which Spain is fully entitled to demand, since it sits on the other side of the table and has its own socio-economic priorities in its region neighbouring Gibraltar.

 

But a hard border between Gibraltar and Spain, to the 10,000 commuters crossing it twice daily, is very much relevant.

 

May and her 3 Brexiteers should have seen that one coming a mile off. I'm not the littlest surprised that either they haven't or, if they have, that clearly they don't care.

 

Expect loads more, where that one came from.

 

Ah, well fair enough, I had a feeling there was more to this than met the eye, that Spain was pushing again for a shared governance deal over Gibraltar and would screw the UK over to gain it.

[Obelix 11]

There's nothing to stop the UK maintaining a military presence there after Brexit, irrespective of whether Spain vetoes the applicability of the UK-EU trade deal to Gibraltar or not.

 

Don't let Michael Howard's jingoistic nonsense confuse you: the military/strategic angle is wholly, completely and absolutely irrelevant.

 

The veto is not about "making Gibraltar Spanish", or impacting Gibraltar's sovereignty in any way, it's simply about Spain agreeing to the post-Brexit UK-EU trading arrangement applying in Gibraltar, or not. Which Spain is fully entitled to demand, since it sits on the other side of the table and has its own socio-economic priorities in its region neighbouring Gibraltar.

 

But a hard border between Gibraltar and Spain, to the 10,000 commuters crossing it twice daily, is very much relevant.

 

May and her 3 Brexiteers should have seen that one coming a mile off. I'm not the littlest surprised that either they haven't or, if they have, that clearly they don't care.

 

Expect loads more, where that one came from.

 

Channel islands being the other obvious one where there will be a bit of friction I expect.

 

Also where are we going to have the proper hard border on the Tunnel?

[L00b 441]

Ah, well fair enough, I had a feeling there was more to this than met the eye, that Spain was pushing again for a shared governance deal over Gibraltar and would screw the UK over to gain it.

Leavers just wavy-handed the problem away beforehand, e.g. see here from #4357, and here from #4371 (the "Gibraltar question" has come up a few times before, chalga and I discussed it on 24 June 2016 in the original Brexit consequences thread ('mk1')).

 

Now that Article 50 has been triggered, they have to deal with it. There's a container-load or 10 of similarly theoretical-turned-real issues waiting to be dealt with. And I have zero doubt that the EU27 will be consistently and self-servingly misrepresented by the Leavers as the bad guys punishing the UK on the model of Howard's imbecilic rant at the weekend.

 

So, well, be ready for it, and for using your brain power to pierce the fog of Leavers' rubbish once more

[Hairyloon 10]

Whether they pass your "scrutiny' or not they exist. This line of discussion is useless.

 

Not my scrutiny, scrutiny under the basic rules of logic and good sense.

Still, if that is the way you want it then I formally accept your list of reasons as follows:

 

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Edited April 3, 2017 by Hairyloon

[Blackbeard 10]

Channel islands being the other obvious one where there will be a bit of friction I expect.

 

Also where are we going to have the proper hard border on the Tunnel?

 

I am old enough to remember the "good old days" when we had our sovereignty and I had to fill in ATA customs carnets just to get my research equipment in and out of Europe how easy it was when we joined. As for the hard border, Dover are already working on it and expecting Operation Stack every day, the old Manston Airport is contracted to park the trucks. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/feb/20/post-brexit-customs-gridlock-could-choke-uk-trade-experts-warn

[L00b 441]

Also where are we going to have the proper hard border on the Tunnel?

Acres of space adjacent the terminal areas in Folkestone.

 

But as the people of Coquelles could tell from about 2 decades' worth of coalface experience, it's one thing to put up mile upon mile of tall fences topped by razor wire...and quite another to make them fully impervious to leaks

[tinfoilhat 11]

Acres of space adjacent the terminal areas in Folkestone.

 

But as the people of Coquelles could tell from about 2 decades' worth of coalface experience, it's one thing to put up mile upon mile of tall fences topped by razor wire...and quite another to make them fully impervious to leaks

 

We're going to build a great, big, beautiful wall. And the French are gonna pay for it!

[monkey104 10]

Au contraire ! The Leave campaign was quite specific, we can "because we`re more important that Switzerland". I actually think this is going to be the most significant lie they told, more so that the NHS £350 million a week thing. As I`ve said already, I can`t wait to see what excuses the Brexiteers come out with, assuming we don`t get the promised excellent (heavily implied as good as now) free trade deal.

 

This bears repetition :

 

For goodness sake, try to find a different drum to beat.

You really are becoming boring!

As someone said " if you have nothing positive to add, say nothing "

[Hairyloon 10]

For goodness sake, try to find a different drum to beat.

You really are becoming boring!

If any of you were to actually address the points, then we would not need to keep banging on at them.

 

Do you perhaps want to add to the official list of reasons for leaving:

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Edited April 3, 2017 by Hairyloon

[Justin Smith 10]

For goodness sake, try to find a different drum to beat.

You really are becoming boring!

As someone said " if you have nothing positive to add, say nothing "

 

Sorry, with relevance to a forum thread, any forum thread, who said that ?

 

And there is no chance whatsoever that I will cease reminding as many people as I can what lies the Leave campaign told to win, significantly, by a narrow margin. The only thing which will stop me is if the UK actually gets its promised free access to the single market (which will also mean the NHS can get it`s extra £350 million a week). As I`ve said, if that happens I`ll not only shut up but publicly apologise. The question is, if neither happens, will you and the other Brexiteers apologise for dishonestly winning ?

I`m not holding my breath.

[L00b 441]

We're going to build a great, big, beautiful wall.

They are going to get a great deal, a really great deal, the greatest! Trust me, it'll be great!

And the French are gonna pay for it!

Sure thing Edited April 3, 2017 by L00b