Hairyloon   10 #85 Posted March 14, 2017 It's a poll that you've selectively interpreted to man what you want. I knew exactly what I was voting for. Did you know it was an advisory referendum, or are you, like so many quitlings, in denial about that?  If the case for holding another Scexit referendum is based on Brexit then it makes zero sense to hold another vote mid-way through the negotiations. It makes perfect sense: we know who is doing the negotiating, we know their track record on general competence and we know their intentions: they can make a reasoned judgement on the likely outcome. If the Scottish are leaving then there's a string case against them participating in the process. So they should go now. They're excluded from the negotiations anyway so what difference does it make?  ---------- Post added 14-03-2017 at 12:12 ----------  Edit: Okay that wasn't hard. https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/01/18/public-back-brexit-plan-think-eu-will-nix-it/ I thought we had a universal agreement across this board that yougov polls are not worth a candle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
unbeliever   10 #86 Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) I say it rather depends on what comes out of it all doesn`t it ? It seems totally illogical to me. How could anyone vote to stay in the EU but actually want to come out of the single market. Can you explain that one to me ? Unless too many have been reading the Mail or Express of course.....  Yes. It's perfectly simple. They voted to remain but were never entirely sure about the matter. Now that the decision is made they think it should be done properly rather than faked. It's exactly what I expected to find. It doesn't help you that reality chose to invalidate a good portion of the remain fear-mongering. I strongly suspect that a good portion of these 30-odd% of remain voters would vote with me if there were a do-over. Edited March 14, 2017 by unbeliever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Justin Smith   10 #87 Posted March 14, 2017 https://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3447/Economy-immigration-and-healthcare-are-Britons-top-three-issues-deciding-general-election-vote.aspx The question posed in 2014 was "Looking ahead to the next general election, which, if any, issues do you think will be very important to you in helping you decide which party to vote for?" 31% for economy 30% immigration/asylum 23% education 13% benefits 12% foreign affairs 11% europe  This was not a matter of ranking items in order of importance. It was a question of what was likely to change peoples' votes. Only 11% thought that europe would change their vote. With only 2 pro-EU parties standing any chance of forming a government and 5 of the 6 major and minor parties supporting EU membership what do you expect? Now if you had a poll asking the direct question which you seem interested in that would be one thing. But you don't. You're making an inference and I reject it.  Which bit of this do you reject :  Which are they most important issues affecting you and your family ? : 10% said Europe  Which are they most important issues affecting the country ? 15% said Europe  Basically UB, to you and a significant minority of (generally older) people the EU has always been a big issue. But to most people it simply wasn`t. That poll simply reflects my own experience. There was absolutely no need for a referendum for most people, other than Tories wanting to nick a few votes off UKIP. And for the Tories to now say they didn`t think there is much support for a referendum in Scotland now is appalling hypocrisy, I don`t understand why you can`t admit that.  ---------- Post added 14-03-2017 at 12:16 ----------  Yes. It's perfectly simple. They voted to remain but were never entirely sure about the matter. Now that the decision is made they think it should be done properly rather than faked. It's exactly what I expected to find. It doesn't help you that reality chose to invalidate a good portion of the remain fear-mongering. I strongly suspect that a good portion of these 30-odd% of remain voters would vote with me if there were a do-over.  Can I quote you on that in a year or so ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
unbeliever   10 #88 Posted March 14, 2017 Which bit of this do you reject : Which are they most important issues affecting you and your family ? : 10% said Europe  Which are they most important issues affecting the country ? 15% said Europe  Basically UB, to you and a significant minority of (generally older) people the EU has always been a big issue. But to most people it simply wasn`t. That poll simply reflects my own experience. There was absolutely no need for a referendum for most people, other than Tories wanting to nick a few votes off UKIP. And for the Tories to now say they didn`t think there is much support for a referendum in Scotland now is appalling hypocrisy, I don`t understand why you can`t admit that.  I've already explained why the poll you quite doesn't mean what you think it does. It's clear that you disagree. It's all beside the point anyway. The government is pursuing a real Brexit with the support of nearly 60% of the people. It's settled and there's no question on any level as to whether it's the will of the people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Justin Smith   10 #89 Posted March 14, 2017 I've already explained why the poll you quite doesn't mean what you think it does. It's clear that you disagree. It's all beside the point anyway. The government is pursuing a real Brexit with the support of nearly 60% of the people. It's settled and there's no question on any level as to whether it's the will of the people.  In the case of this thread I thought we were actually discussing the hypocrisy of the Govt in claiming there was no will for a Scottish referendum on their independence ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
unbeliever   10 #90 Posted March 14, 2017 In the case of this thread I thought we were actually discussing the hypocrisy of the Govt in claiming there was no will for a Scottish referendum on their independence ?  This government claim does rather have the virtue of being true. http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/should-there-be-another-independence-referendum-before-the-brexit-negotiations#line  But by all means let's have the vote. When Sturgeon loses she'll resign and we won't have to hear her any more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Jacktari   10 #91 Posted March 14, 2017 I've already explained why the poll you quite doesn't mean what you think it does. It's clear that you disagree. It's all beside the point anyway. The government is pursuing a real Brexit with the support of nearly 60% of the people. It's settled and there's no question on any level as to whether it's the will of the people.  Are you saying 60% of the population of this country support this governments actions? Where does that figure come from?  I don't think any government in the history of the entire world has had the support of 60% of its country, no matter where they are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
unbeliever   10 #92 Posted March 14, 2017 (edited) Are you saying 60% of the population of this country support this governments actions? Where does that figure come from?  I don't think any government in the history of the entire world has had the support of 60% of its country, no matter where they are.  https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/01/18/public-back-brexit-plan-think-eu-will-nix-it/ It's not quite 60%. 56% on the customs union and 57% on the single market. Embarrassingly I seem to have done the maths wrong the first time when I said it was 59%. Still pretty comfortable though. Also, somewhat critically, WTO MFN is viewed as not being the worst possible option. There are various other numbers in there which back up, basically everything I've ever said on the matter. But then you can all read. Edited March 14, 2017 by unbeliever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Jacktari   10 #93 Posted March 14, 2017 60% of the population of this country don't know or care what is happening to them. The 60% must be like that cat food advert. Those who expressed an opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Harrystottle   10 #94 Posted March 14, 2017 It is obvious that wee Burnie will never give over until Scotland is independent, so grant her wish asap and let's all move on. Then Scotland can get on with sorting out EU membership, currency etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
unbeliever   10 #95 Posted March 14, 2017 60% of the population of this country don't know or care what is happening to them. The 60% must be like that cat food advert. Those who expressed an opinion.  Okay. So you're not arguing with the obvious conclusion. Which is Unbeliever was right about everything. https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/01/18/public-back-brexit-plan-think-eu-will-nix-it/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Justin Smith   10 #96 Posted March 14, 2017 This government claim does rather have the virtue of being true. http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/should-there-be-another-independence-referendum-before-the-brexit-negotiations#line  But by all means let's have the vote. When Sturgeon loses she'll resign and we won't have to hear her any more.  No that`s the statistics as to whether Independence will win, not whether there should be a referendum at all. I thought I heard support for an independence referendum was 35% odd, I was simply pointing out that`s far higher than the %age of voters who were concerned about the EU (enough to put it in their top three of concerns anyway), yet they had a referendum on that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...