Fund the NHS adequately

[Daven 10]

One problem is that when a Brit needs treatment in say, a Spanish hospital on their EHIC card, the Spanish system invoices the NHS for payment. Sadly the other way round, the NHS treats the Spaniard, but forgets to bill the Spanish health service for the treatment given.

 

That's not actually true.

What evidence have you got for this statement ?

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2018 at 20:26 ----------

 

I thought that, there's an awful lot of NHS staff earning a lot less that the starting £22k a year a nurse earns.

 

I was discussing Care Support Workers - sorry I didn't make that clear.

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2018 at 20:37 ----------

 

I take home less than a nurse's starting wage. I manage to run a house with 2 children and a car so that begs the question of why does someone earning more struggle to make ends meet?

 

As for being paid what they're worth. Well if they weren't paying an agency nurses 5x the going rate then maybe they could afford to increase salaries.....

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2018 at 13:14 ----------

 

 

I almost wrote residents but then thought that we'd then have the argument of howong do you have to live somewhere before being classed as resident,

 

Good for you. But everyones circumstances are different - I'm sure you will accept that surely ?

Edited July 2, 2018 by Daven

[Calahonda 11]

One problem is that when a Brit needs treatment in say, a Spanish hospital on their EHIC card, the Spanish system invoices the NHS for payment. Sadly the other way round, the NHS treats the Spaniard, but forgets to bill the Spanish health service for the treatment given.

 

That's not actually true.

What evidence have you got for this statement ?

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2018 at 20:26 ----------

 

 

I was discussing Care Support Workers - sorry I didn't make that clear.

 

---------- Post added 02-07-2018 at 20:37 ----------

 

 

Good for you. But everyones circumstances are different - I'm sure you will accept that surely ?

 

Please quote the amounts of reimbursements, and from which EU Nations they were collected from.

[L00b 441]

I almost wrote residents but then thought that we'd then have the argument of howong do you have to live somewhere before being classed as resident,

That doesn’t answer my question to you at all. Can you please try again?

[Anna B 1,401]

The UK also needs a well-defined and carefully-planned Social Care scheme for people whose increased lifespans throw extra demands on it and on UK taxpayers. It should start with an obligation to pay one's own costs whilst ever one has funds to do so.

That would be easier to stomach if it was value for money but it's not.

 

£500 per week, (minimum) is more than a lot of old people have ever earned in their lives. And in some instances the care is appalling. Too few poorly trained staff on minimum wage. I'd like to see a proper breakdown of where the money goes.

Private care homes can also be very picky about who they take, wanting only those who cause the least trouble (eg, won't take dementia cases.) And also have no qualms about evicting old people when their money is all gone. They don't do it for their good, they are there to make a profit out of people.

 

Don't believe the glossy (expensive) brochures, someone somewhere is getting very rich off the backs of these care home fees.

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

Even if that were so, I doubt that there's any realistic alternative.

[Daven 10]

]Please quote the amounts of reimbursements' date=' and from which EU Nations they were collected from[/b'].

 

I can't - why would I have that information ?

Your statement 'the NHS treats the Spaniards but forgets to bill the Spanish Health Service for treatment given' is incorrect - where did you get this information from ? Please provide evidence.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2018 at 17:41 ----------

 

[/b]

That would be easier to stomach if it was value for money but it's not.

 

£500 per week, (minimum) is more than a lot of old people have ever earned in their lives. And in some instances the care is appalling. Too few poorly trained staff on minimum wage. I'd like to see a proper breakdown of where the money goes.

Private care homes can also be very picky about who they take, wanting only those who cause the least trouble (eg, won't take dementia cases.) And also have no qualms about evicting old people when their money is all gone. They don't do it for their good, they are there to make a profit out of people.

 

Don't believe the glossy (expensive) brochures, someone somewhere is getting very rich off the backs of these care home fees.

My lovely Mum passed away quite recently and had been in a private residential EMI home for almost 8 years.

She was self funding for the first 7 years until her money ran out and the Council took over. The care home continued to care for Mum in the same loving way for the remainder of her life. Despite the fact that her needs were such at the end of of her life that she qualified for nursing care, we chose to let her remain in the residential home as we don't believe she could have had any better care than she was getting. She was always treated with the utmost dignity and respect.

My point is that not all care homes are bad. I believe there are far more good ones than bad - it's only the bad ones that we hear about.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Daven

[Calahonda 11]

I can't - why would I have that information ?

Your statement 'the NHS treats the Spaniards but forgets to bill the Spanish Health Service for treatment given' is incorrect - where did you get this information from ? Please provide evidence.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2018 at 17:41 ----------https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=11888925

 

My lovely Mum passed away quite recently and had been in a private residential EMI home for almost 8 years.

She was self funding for the first 7 years until her money ran out and the Council took over. The care home continued to care for Mum in the same loving way for the remainder of her life. Despite the fact that her needs were such at the end of of her life that she qualified for nursing care, we chose to let her remain in the residential home as we don't believe she could have had any better care than she was getting. She was always treated with the utmost dignity and respect.

My point is that not all care homes are bad. I believe there are far more good ones than bad - it's only the bad ones that we hear about.

 

Of course you can’t prove that we are not reimbursed, nobody can because we aren’t. Taking Spain as an example, they have a charging based system for none resident users, the UK doesn’t even have a system to charge out, where’s the charging point in A&E? However I can tell you where it in a Spanish hospital, it’s at the reception point.

[Bob Arctor 11]

The UK also needs a well-defined and carefully-planned Social Care scheme for people whose increased lifespans throw extra demands on it and on UK taxpayers. It should start with an obligation to pay one's own costs whilst ever one has funds to do so.

 

Have you not heard of the Care Act?

[ez8004 10]

So a poll suggests that the UK believes the NHS will collapse.

 

Many believe the mainstream belief that it is under-funded and that this is why it will collapse.

 

Personally I don't. I believe that it has the money it needs and more besides. However the majority of funds are being wasted.

 

• Unnecessary management posts
  
• Paying massively inflated prices for basic items
  
• Performing elective, unnecessary cosmetic surgeries
  
• Allowing NHS nurses to quit to become agency nurses at inflated wages. I've heard, from NHS nurses that agency staff are on upto £50 per HOUR depending on dept.
  

 

I have ideas on what needs to happen

 

1. Public review into all management positions to determine viability. Also within the inquiry review performance of all management personnel as with all management roles there will be those that are simply 'coasting'
    
   
2. Public publication of NHS spending down to the penny and review of purchasing rules
    
   
3. NHS patient ID cards. Issued only to UK citizens. Emergency treatment will still be provided without but ongoing and non-emergency treatment will be denied without payment/insurance to prevent health-tourism
    
   
4. Put GPs on clock-cards and ‘fine’ them for persistent lateness. Most GPs are great but from personal experience some are terrible. My current GP surgery (only on in village) the sole GP has appointments booked in from 8am however he regularly strolls in up 45 mins late.
    
   
5. Ban on employing agency nurses working for NHS if they've worked for the NHS directly within a certain number of years, say 3. If they quit the NHS and wish to rejoin with a direct position again then this can be done with no restriction.
   

 

 

Now I know people will disagree so let's hear your thoughts...

 

You have no idea what you are talking about. £50/hr for a specialist as a sub-contractor is NORMAL. The NHS will not for example need to make pension provision and redundancy payments for letting them go unlike permanent staff. If you normalised these benefits then your NHS employed nurses are effectively on the same wage. It doesn't really cost the NHS as much as your think and they have the flexibility of letting staff go if needed.

 

If you think £50/hr is a lot, then you need to have a wider look of the world.

[Anna B 1,401]

You have no idea what you are talking about. £50/hr for a specialist as a sub-contractor is NORMAL. The NHS will not for example need to make pension provision and redundancy payments for letting them go unlike permanent staff. If you normalised these benefits then your NHS employed nurses are effectively on the same wage. It doesn't really cost the NHS as much as your think and they have the flexibility of letting staff go if needed.

 

If you think £50/hr is a lot, then you need to have a wider look of the world.

If £50 an hour is not a lot in your opinion, then how do you feel about £60 a week for 24/7 care?

 

That is what carers get paid for looking after someone all day every day for whom they may have had to give up a well paid job. And believe you me, looking after someone with for example, dementia, is a very skilled, hard and soul destroying job.

[ez8004 10]

[/b]

If £50 an hour is not a lot in your opinion, then how do you feel about £60 a week for 24/7 care?

 

That is what carers get paid for looking after someone all day every day for whom they may have had to give up a well paid job. And believe you me, looking after someone with for example, dementia, is a very skilled, hard and soul destroying job.

 

So what are you arguing here? Too much money or not enough? Your post makes no sense in relation to mine.

[Anna B 1,401]

So what are you arguing here? Too much money or not enough? Your post makes no sense in relation to mine.

 

My point is it's all relative. £50 an hour is more than most earn so seems a lot. I think it's you who needs to take a wider look at the world..

 

A care home can charge upwards of £500 a week per person, but pays its hard working carers minimum wage. Nurses can command £50 an hour, but an auxilliary nurse only a fraction of that for equally arduous work. The world of work is full of inconsistency, and people are often not paid their worth. There is a considerable gap opening up between the well paid and the rest. Unfortunately the necessity / importance of the job is no guarantee of a decent wage. Nor are qualifications. I can point to any number of graduates (including science graduates) who are on low level salaries.

 

---------- Post added 04-07-2018 at 17:25 ----------

 

I can't - why would I have that information ?

Your statement 'the NHS treats the Spaniards but forgets to bill the Spanish Health Service for treatment given' is incorrect - where did you get this information from ? Please provide evidence.

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2018 at 17:41 ----------

 

My lovely Mum passed away quite recently and had been in a private residential EMI home for almost 8 years.

She was self funding for the first 7 years until her money ran out and the Council took over. The care home continued to care for Mum in the same loving way for the remainder of her life. Despite the fact that her needs were such at the end of of her life that she qualified for nursing care, we chose to let her remain in the residential home as we don't believe she could have had any better care than she was getting. She was always treated with the utmost dignity and respect.

My point is that not all care homes are bad. I believe there are far more good ones than bad - it's only the bad ones that we hear about.

 

Very pleased to hear your Mum had such a good experience.

 

I'm sure some care homes are excellent, but my own personal experience is that they are not all like that by a long chalk. A lot depends on the ethos of the home and the quality and dedication of the staff, and unfortunately you really only discover that, once your loved one is in place, in spite of all the attempts to find out beforehand.

 

It all seems a bit of a lottery, and it shouldn't be.