Tram Trains thread

[Guest busdriver1]

The tram-train project is not economically viable as all light railways are.

 

Nearly every penny of the project has been paid for by the Government

 

 

 

I think you will find that means us, the taxpayer.

 

---------- Post added 06-10-2018 at 12:22 ----------

 

 

Worst scenario is that we have had seven new trams and the track replaced for free.

 

See above comments

 

---------- Post added 06-10-2018 at 12:24 ----------

 

 

The £5 billion rail, tube, tram and bus subsidy that London gets from the nations tax payers should perhaps be shared out.

 

 

Ah so when it suits you remember.

 

If it was to be shared out pro rata by population with a slight bias towards NEED I think you would find that we are roughly on a par.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

I think you will find that means us, the taxpayer.

 

---------- Post added 06-10-2018 at 12:22 ----------

 

 

See above comments

 

---------- Post added 06-10-2018 at 12:24 ----------

 

 

Ah so when it suits you remember.

 

If it was to be shared out pro rata by population with a slight bias towards NEED I think you would find that we are roughly on a par.

 

 

I am glad that you understand how taxation and transport works, everybody single person pays tax and since 1947 rail spending has always been slewed toward providing the South East with far greater infrastructure spending and far greater operating subsidy. This has maintained the growth and prosperity of the Capital. To maintain this bias and to counter the political damage caused, the politicians announce long term projects that benefit the regions which are rarely completed in full, never on time and way over budget providing the naysayers with fodder to attack any project.

 

How easy it is for the Government to maintain subsidy and expenditure in the SE when they know that a vocal minority in the regions will help create such negativity that it smooths the path to cancellation, suspension, cut backs and delays.

 

The gap is getting bigger and bigger. Don't help the Government give all the slices of the pie to the Capital and then hoover up the crumbs.

[Andy C 86]

I thought now the launch date has been announced by SYPTE I'll summarise a bit about the service. More information on the fares and timetable should appear at supertram.com in the coming week.

 

 

THE ROUTE

 

the tram-train route runs from Sheffield Cathedral along the existing yellow route tram line as far as Meadowhall South (will stop all tram stops inbetween on request), then onto the Network Rail line to Rotherham Central station and Rotherham Parkgate (behind the retail park)

CATHEDRAL - CASTLE SQUARE - FITZALAN SQUARE - HYDE PARK - CRICKET INN ROAD - NUNNERY SQUARE PARK & RIDE - WOODBOURN ROAD - ATTERCLIFFE - ARENA/OLYMPIC LEGACY PARK - VALLEY CENTERTAINMENT - CARBROOK (IKEA) - MEADOWHALL SOUTH/TINSLEY - ROTHERHAM CENTRAL - PARKGATE.

 

THE TIMETABLE

 

trams will run up to 3 trips per hour 7 days a week. The end-to-end journey time from Sheffield Cathedral to Rotherham Parkgate is 27 minutes.

 

The first departure from Cathedral Mon-Sat is 05:27 and the first one on Sundays is 08:27.

The first departure from Parkgate Mon-Sat is 05:59 and on Sundays it is 08:59

The last departure from Cathedral Mon-Sat is 22:00 and on Sundays 18:00, returning from Parkgate at 22:31 and 18:31 respectively.

 

THE TICKETS

 

The Supertram fares structure will apply. The fares for journeys only by tram (single/return/tram day) are yet to be announced.

 

For joint bus/tram tickets, Sheffield tickets (eg Sheffield Bus & Tram Megarider or Citywide) will be valid between Cathedral and Meadowhall South, Rotherham tickets (eg Dearne Valley bus & tram Megarider or R-Connect) will be valid between Parkgate and Meadowhall.

 

The Day Explorer, Megarider Gold, South Yorkshire Connect and South Yorkshire Connect Plus include bus travel in all of South Yorkshire and the full Supertram network including tram-train in both Sheffield and Rotherham. The Connect+ ticket also includes trains in South Yorkshire. The monthly Railmaster pass valid on all trains in South Yorkshire also includes the full tram-train route. Explorer and Megarider Gold also includes Stagecoach buses in Derbyshire and Nottinghamshire.

 

in summary for travel Sheffield-Rotherham:

 

TRAM-TRAIN SINGLE : TBA

TRAM-TRAIN DAYRIDER: TBA

TRAM-TRAIN 7 DAY MEGARIDER: TBA

 

STAGECOACH BUS & TRAM DAY EXPLORER: £6.50

SOUTH YORKSHIRE CONNECT DAY: £6.60

SOUTH YORKSHIRE CONNECT PLUS DAY: £8.20

 

STAGECOACH 7 DAY MEGARIDER GOLD: £22.00

SOUTH YORKSHIRE CONNECT 7 DAY: £23.00

SOUTH YORKSHIRE CONNECT+ 7 DAY: £28.70

 

More information on the all operator tickets (SY Connect etc) can be found at http://www.sytravelmaster.com.

More information on the Stagecoach tickets (Explorer, Dayrider, Megarider etc) can be found at http://www.supertram.com.

 

TICKET SALES

 

Single, return, day and most weekly tickets are sold by conductors on board, note this is cash only.

 

Daily and most weekly tickets are also available to buy on the Stagecoach bus smartphone app.

 

Weekly Stagecoach tickets can be bought online at http://www.stagecoachbus.com which get loaded onto a smart card.

 

Many weekly and 28 day tickets are also available from the self service vending machines in Sheffield Interchange, Arundel Gate Interchange and Rotherham Interchange.

 

The South Yorkshire Connect Plus tickets and South Yorkshire Railmaster can also be purchased from the Northern Rail ticket office at Rotherham Central.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Andy C

[taxman 12]

So what happens if I get on with my Sheffield Citywide at the Cathedral, show my pass but then stay on past Tinsley South....will the conductor have to come round and check everyones tickets again?

[Annie Bynnol 612]

So what happens if I get on with my Sheffield Citywide at the Cathedral, show my pass but then stay on past Tinsley South....will the conductor have to come round and check everyones tickets again?

 

Buy another ticket from the conductor when they approach you either after the Cathedral or after Tinsley South.

Luckily the terms and conditions of travel are that of Stagecoach not the Railway. Not or avoiding paying can be a criminal offence on the Railway.

Edited October 6, 2018 by Annie Bynnol

[Guest busdriver1]

So what happens if I get on with my Sheffield Citywide at the Cathedral, show my pass but then stay on past Tinsley South....will the conductor have to come round and check everyones tickets again?

 

Exactly the same as any means of transport that goes past a boundary.

 

---------- Post added 06-10-2018 at 17:36 ----------

 

I am glad that you understand how taxation and transport works, everybody single person pays tax and since 1947 rail spending has always been slewed toward providing the South East with far greater infrastructure spending and far greater operating subsidy. This has maintained the growth and prosperity of the Capital. To maintain this bias and to counter the political damage caused, the politicians announce long term projects that benefit the regions which are rarely completed in full, never on time and way over budget providing the naysayers with fodder to attack any project.

 

How easy it is for the Government to maintain subsidy and expenditure in the SE when they know that a vocal minority in the regions will help create such negativity that it smooths the path to cancellation, suspension, cut backs and delays.

 

The gap is getting bigger and bigger. Don't help the Government give all the slices of the pie to the Capital and then hoover up the crumbs.

 

A very predictable - I am the expert type response. You never fail to deliver.

[Andy C 86]

So what happens if I get on with my Sheffield Citywide at the Cathedral, show my pass but then stay on past Tinsley South....will the conductor have to come round and check everyones tickets again?

 

Exactly the same as What happens on a bus to Rotherham, you ask the conductor for a single or return from Meadowhall to Rotherham to add to your Citywide. Of course it may be better value to buy a SY Connect rather than a Citywide in the first place if you know you'll want to go to Rotherham.

[BigAl1 143]

The tram side of things is still being adjusted.

 

I am sorry but this makes no sense. The paths on the "main" line need to have been agreed with Network Rail a long time ago and somehow Andy C seems to know the times even if the PTE and Stagecoach do not

 

Given the time they have had to think about the fares structure it is somewhat surprising that they have not been able to announce this a 3 weeks before the introduction

Edited October 7, 2018 by amnicoll

[nikki-red 308]

Posts have been removed as they may be seen to breach our Ts & Cs.

It is nobody elses business who another poster works for. If they dont want to disclose that information thats totally within their rights.

 

Back on topic please.

[1978 14]

And, yet again, the trial is not looking at how many people use the thing

 

And yet again, no matter that technology has been the principal feature under trial, and the costings thereof, it would help a great deal if the line is used as much as possible. The lower the losses the better.

 

All new lines will ultimately be judged in that light and this one will be no exception. Any line that fails on passenger numbers will potentially damage the business case projections for any future lines, anywhere. This one will stand out more than most because of that very high cost. Any future tram/train should be able to gain significantly from that experience and reduce the cost.

[Planner1 437]

Any line that fails on passenger numbers will potentially damage the business case projections for any future lines, anywhere. This one will stand out more than most because of that very high cost.

No, that isn't the case.

 

Any future tram train project would be judged solely on its own merits. The figures for potential passengers would be modelled and set against projected costs.

 

As has been said previously the tram train trial is principally to look at the practicalities of the vehicles and operating them in a heavy and light rail environment and to evaluate the effects they have on the heavy rail track / infrastructure.

 

This will of course help in understanding the costs of any future scheme IF the trial shows that tram trains are a practical proposition on UK railways.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Planner1

[chrisblor 10]

Exactly the same as any means of transport that goes past a boundary.

 

---------- Post added 06-10-2018 at 17:36 ----------

 

 

A very predictable - I am the expert type response. You never fail to deliver.

 

Demonstrable expertise offers far more to a discussion than sardonic quips and deliberate ignorance do.