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Machines are taking our jobs

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I've not read that article on the BBC.

 

The trouble with the services industry is that people are just sat on their backsides making phone calls all day or staring at a screen. There's no creativity or manual tasks that involve breaking any kind of a sweat. This leads to bad health because, like myself, not everyone wants to go to the gym and exercise in front of others. Plus, it can be expensive, £30 a month (ish)....unless you go to one of those cheaper pure gym places and queue for ages because they're always packed.

 

One good thing about a universal income is these people, of which you mention, are at least going to spend their money. They might not want to work but apparantly they love a big TV, Sky Sports and a larger or 2!

 

---------- Post added 01-02-2017 at 13:54 ----------

 

 

True, but it's certainly not the same people that the machines are replacing. There's a massive education gap between an engineer and a checkout person.

 

---------- Post added 01-02-2017 at 13:59 ----------

 

 

The Luddites are all dead.

 

Anyway, the way that the machinery was introduced broke employment laws and was fraudulent. Who can blame them for revolting.

 

Here we are having a conversation about the future and you bring up the 1800's haha!

 

 

You have not the slightest clue what you're talking about.

 

Spend 5 minutes looking at the gruelling labour people has to do just for a chance at surviving.

What makes the march of technology any different today than it was 50, 100, 200 years ago?

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We are never going to 'run out of alternative forms of employment for people'. As has happened over the centuries, jobs will change, but they will still be available. For example you can't automate a plumber, an electrician or other skilled trade. Then there will be all the work designing, building and maintaining the robots. No robot can fix Windows 10 when it goes haywire either!!

 

Given our new trading status in the world, people can do what I did and that is to start off with an idea and a blank sheet of paper. Lots of design, software, blood sweat, poverty and tears later, our products hit a global market. No robot can stop any of you doing the same. The internet gives access to a global market with unlimited potential for software, products and ideas. All it takes are the guts, balls, grit, determination and maybe some luck to get your product, service or idea launched.

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As technology outgrows us at an alarming rate, we're seeing more and more manual jobs being taken over by machines. From automobile production lines, to banks, to the supermarket checkouts, to name just a few.

 

What will happen once we run out of alternative forms of employment for people? How will the economy be propped up if people are out of work and can't put any money back into the system?

 

One theory is that a universal income would mean people had money to spend but what does the forum think might happen?

 

The EU are already considering the ramifications of robots and AI and the idea of a universal income.

 

European Parliament’s legal affairs committee wants to look into basic income in light of robots threat

 

On Thursday 12 January, European Parliament’s committee on Legal affairs (JURI) adopted a report on “Civil law rules on robotics” which considers the legal and economic consequences of the rise of robots and artificial intelligence devices.

 

According to the report, since “robots, bots, androids and other manifestations of artificial intelligence (“AI”) seem poised to unleash a new industrial revolution, which is likely to leave no stratum of society untouched, it is vitally important for the legislature to consider all its implications.”

 

It reads further: “the development of robotics and AI may result in a large part of the work now done by humans being taken over by robots, so raising concerns about the future of employment and the viability of social security systems if the current basis of taxation is maintained, creating the potential for increased inequality in the distribution of wealth and influence”

 

To cope with those consequences, the report makes a strong call for basic income. “A general basic income should be seriously considered, and (the European Parliament) invites all Member States to do so.”

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I cant see a universal income ever happening, companies are just not going to pay for it.

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The companies don't have to pay for it.

The middle class and wealthy already heavily subsidise the poor, as they should. This is due to high productivity caused by technological advancement.

 

Further advances in technology will mean still higher productivity and growth, and therefore still higher subsidies for the poor.

There will always be a debate about the degree to which the better off should subsidise the poor, but this debate takes place within the framework of what is affordable. More productivity makes more affordable.

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You have not the slightest clue what you're talking about.

 

Spend 5 minutes looking at the gruelling labour people has to do just for a chance at surviving.

What makes the march of technology any different today than it was 50, 100, 200 years ago?

 

Besides being needlessly insulting...what's your point??

 

Don't you think technology is advancing more rapidly these days?

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Besides being needlessly insulting...what's your point??

 

Don't you think technology is advancing more rapidly these days?

 

What does that even mean? I think it just becomes more available, usable and visible to the general public.

 

---------- Post added 02-02-2017 at 08:50 ----------

 

I've not read that article on the BBC.

 

The trouble with the services industry is that people are just sat on their backsides making phone calls all day or staring at a screen. There's no creativity or manual tasks that involve breaking any kind of a sweat. This leads to bad health because, like myself, not everyone wants to go to the gym and exercise in front of others. Plus, it can be expensive, £30 a month (ish)....unless you go to one of those cheaper pure gym places and queue for ages because they're always packed.

 

One good thing about a universal income is these people, of which you mention, are at least going to spend their money. They might not want to work but apparantly they love a big TV, Sky Sports and a larger or 2!

 

---------- Post added 01-02-2017 at 13:54 ----------

 

 

True, but it's certainly not the same people that the machines are replacing. There's a massive education gap between an engineer and a checkout person.

 

---------- Post added 01-02-2017 at 13:59 ----------

 

 

The Luddites are all dead.

 

Anyway, the way that the machinery was introduced broke employment laws and was fraudulent. Who can blame them for revolting.

 

Here we are having a conversation about the future and you bring up the 1800's haha!

 

That's not the only option though, is it.

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Don't you think technology is advancing more rapidly these days?

 

Sure. How is that relevant?

 

 

Okay let's take an example from the near future.

Self-driving cars are nearly ready. This means no more work for people who drive for a living. The self-driving cars will be safer, ultimately cheaper, faster, more convenient, more reliable, better for the environment oh and did I mention safer.

A great many lives will be saved by preventing accidents, reducing damage to health and on many other fronts.

Productivity will increase as AI drivers operate 24/7 without breaks and labour is freed from driving tasks and given over to tasks which we can now afford to do, further increasing our rate of progress and growth.

 

People who currently drive for a living will have to retrain. This will be disruptive for them. Many will find the transition difficult and suffer a (possibly long-term) drop in their living standards.

 

Look at the balance. Lives saved, health improved, major increases in living standards for the many; against a difficult transition for the few.

We should do more to support the few through the transition, but would you really seek to prevent this change from occurring? Come on really?

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What does that even mean? I think it just becomes more available, usable and visible to the general public.

 

---------- Post added 02-02-2017 at 08:50 ----------

 

 

That's not the only option though, is it.

 

Couple of good points.

 

Firstly, I personally ally think technology is advancing more rapidly these days. 30 years ago computer games were 2 lines bouncing a dot between each other. Today we have games that look almost real with virtual reality heases. I think that is a remarkable turn of pace.

Also, look at the rapid growth of smartphones and the Internet.

 

Secondly, I do realise that the gym isn't the only option for keeping fit. I choose to keep fit at home, but I still have to pay for the equipment. However, my point is, we no longer lead active lifestyles and we have to take exercise as a separate option and make additional time for it.

 

---------- Post added 02-02-2017 at 09:49 ----------

 

Sure. How is that relevant?

 

 

Okay let's take an example from the near future.

Self-driving cars are nearly ready. This means no more work for people who drive for a living. The self-driving cars will be safer, ultimately cheaper, faster, more convenient, more reliable, better for the environment oh and did I mention safer.

A great many lives will be saved by preventing accidents, reducing damage to health and on many other fronts.

Productivity will increase as AI drivers operate 24/7 without breaks and labour is freed from driving tasks and given over to tasks which we can now afford to do, further increasing our rate of progress and growth.

 

People who currently drive for a living will have to retrain. This will be disruptive for them. Many will find the transition difficult and suffer a (possibly long-term) drop in their living standards.

 

Look at the balance. Lives saved, health improved, major increases in living standards for the many; against a difficult transition for the few.

We should do more to support the few through the transition, but would you really seek to prevent this change from occurring? Come on really?

 

Good point, although I wouldn't agree with the self driving cars myself. I think personal transport will always have an aspet of the traditional automobile. I'd feel much safer driving myself and I think the general public would feel much safer if their AI driven vehicle was manned by a human, much like an airliner on auto pilot is.....just incase something goes wrong.

 

I think that technology is advancing faster than we can retrain the people it's leaving behind though. We've got an army of unemployable people. You only have to sit some people in front of a computer and they look lost!

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Couple of good points.

 

Firstly, I personally ally think technology is advancing more rapidly these days. 30 years ago computer games were 2 lines bouncing a dot between each other. Today we have games that look almost real with virtual reality heases. I think that is a remarkable turn of pace.

Also, look at the rapid growth of smartphones and the Internet.

 

Secondly, I do realise that the gym isn't the only option for keeping fit. I choose to keep fit at home, but I still have to pay for the equipment. However, my point is, we no longer lead active lifestyles and we have to take exercise as a separate option and make additional time for it.

 

---------- Post added 02-02-2017 at 09:49 ----------

 

 

Good point, although I wouldn't agree with the self driving cars myself. I think personal transport will always have an aspet of the traditional automobile. I'd feel much safer driving myself and I think the general public would feel much safer if their AI driven vehicle was manned by a human, much like an airliner on auto pilot is.....just incase something goes wrong.

 

I think that technology is advancing faster than we can retrain the people it's leaving behind though. We've got an army of unemployable people. You only have to sit some people in front of a computer and they look lost!

 

Fair comment. 50% of my working life I'm at a desk, very sedentary, the rest I can be in factories working on machinery, which is very active. I prefer the active part. When I'm in the office, I cycle there, and go out for a walk at lunch.

 

Your other point re 30 years ago computer games were very basic....in the 30 years prior to that how fast was the advance in computing? Similar I would say, it's just not in the public eye.

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Somebody has to make the machines though....!

 

I'm from the factory. I make the machines.

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As technology outgrows us at an alarming rate, we're seeing more and more manual jobs being taken over by machines. From automobile production lines, to banks, to the supermarket checkouts, to name just a few.

 

What will happen once we run out of alternative forms of employment for people? How will the economy be propped up if people are out of work and can't put any money back into the system?

 

One theory is that a universal income would mean people had money to spend but what does the forum think might happen?

 

I say we rise up against the plow, the threshing machine and the loom.

If it weren't for the damned machines we could all be gainfully employed in back breaking, hard grind labour. Damn them for taking that from me and instead allowing me to sit in an air conditioned office all day. Rise up, comrades.

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