How far will the rise of nationalistic populism go ?

[Guest]

Do you mean was there (at the 2015 General Election) ? I don`t think UKIP would have got any more seats than they did, and if they did it`d literally be a handful. Under those circumstances I`d have thought Cameron would have much preferred getting into bed with the Lib Dems than UKIP.

 

The difference between the 2015 GE and now is the terrible state of the Labour party.

[altus 538]

The difference between the 2015 GE and now is the terrible state of the Labour party.

That and the fact that the Tories are currently implementing UKIP's only real policy.

 

The Stoke Central by-election showed that the Labour party, even in its current state, aren't going to be as easy to shift as UKIP would like.

[tinfoilhat 11]

That and the fact that the Tories are currently implementing UKIP's only real policy.

 

The Stoke Central by-election showed that the Labour party, even in its current state, aren't going to be as easy to shift as UKIP would like.

 

But the Copeland election result highlighted how awful labour are the moment. I think if anyone is going to lose votes to UKIP it will be labour and in large amounts in some places. Enough for UKIP to get a seat or two? Not sure but enough for the tories or even the lib dems (remember them?) to hoover up a few.

[altus 538]

But the Copeland election result highlighted how awful labour are the moment. I think if anyone is going to lose votes to UKIP it will be labour and in large amounts in some places. Enough for UKIP to get a seat or two? Not sure but enough for the tories or even the lib dems (remember them?) to hoover up a few.

Don't get me wrong, I think Labour will do badly, I just don't think UKIP will gain as much as they think they will. The Eurosceptic right wing ex-Tories who form the majority of UKIP's core are going to start drifting back to the Tories which will to some extent offset UKIP's current gains from Labour. That will only be accelerated if UKIP start adopting policies designed to appeal to Labour voters.

 

The LibDems will pickup Europhile votes from both Labour and the Conservatives and are likely to make big gains in the next election.

[El Cid 214]

Mr Farron will say he wants to reclaim the British flag from nationalists using it as a "symbol of division".

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39318822

[Justin Smith 10]

So they fall for the media vitriol, so Le Penn is Fascist, explain? Because the media says so, and knowing nothing of French politic i believe them. So why is she a threat to the establishment? Because she is a racist the mod coo. Wrong its because she want out of Europe and that would collapse the gravy train initially constructed after WW" bu the CIA to "influence" the political direction of Europe.

 

The key CIA front was the American Committee for a United Europe (ACUE), chaired by Donovan. Another document shows that it provided 53.5 per cent of the European movement's funds in 1958. The board included Walter Bedell Smith and Allen Dulles, CIA directors in the Fifties, and a caste of ex-OSS officials who moved in and out of the CIA.Papers show that it treated some of the EU's 'founding fathers' as hired hands, and actively prevented them finding alternative funding that would have broken reliance on Washington. read up about the American Committee on United Europe

 

So governing each sovereign state by the USA was simplified to "influencing" one authority which would impose laws on the rest......simple!

 

So the question regurgitated by those that cannot think for themselves is what happens after BREXIT, and what they do not want people to ask is what would have happened if we had agreed to stay. TTIP? Corporate takeover of all services, sovereignty make immaterial, and the list is endless. So the truth is neither side can or could predict the future, and the future is speculative as anything could happen like another banking collapse as printing money cannot go on forever, as it created debt. Public debt and private debt is around 3 trillion and going up. Wages are going down unless you are one of the parasitic class that produces nothing as in creating no additional wealth to products as opposed to swindling as is commonly practiced in the Insurance and financial parasitic sector.

 

The 35 year reign of the Neo liberals and Neo conservatives where income inequality has become a joke, in the non existent trickle down imagination of the politicians and economists who never understood what they were talking about. This social engineered nightmare might actually be possible to end, and BREXIT was the second canary in the coalmine after Corbyn which was the start.

 

I can`t even be arsed to answer this.

[Obelix 11]

I can`t even be arsed to answer this.

 

We don't agree on many things do we but I think we do on this. I cant even begin to figure out where to start on this one.

[unbeliever 10]

I can`t even be arsed to answer this.

 

I sympathise. I think that referring to Le Pen as a "fascist" is either an abuse of the term or a massive leap in terms of seeing into the mind of a French politician, but as for the rest of that nonsense...

[Justin Smith 10]

I sympathise. I think that referring to Le Pen as a "fascist" is either an abuse of the term or a massive leap in terms of seeing into the mind of a French politician, but as for the rest of that nonsense...

 

Funnily enough I was listening to a prog on R4 about the French NF last night. I admit she appears to be less extreme than her father (would you say he wasn`t a fascist ? ), but the programme was ambivalent about whether it was a cynical ploy to get into power.

[Harrystottle 10]

I don't usually believe conspiracy theories but it seems to me that someone has deliberately stitched Francois Fillon up in the French election, to the benefit of Emmanuel Macron.

 

Macron is a policy-lite globalist Tony Blair clone who seems to be the favourite for the Presidency. If he gets it let's hope he turns out to be better than Blair.

[unbeliever 10]

Funnily enough I was listening to a prog on R4 about the French NF last night. I admit she appears to be less extreme than her father (would you say he wasn`t a fascist ? ), but the programme was ambivalent about whether it was a cynical ploy to get into power.

 

Well that's a good question.

I dislike labelling anti-immigration people "fascist" almost as much as I dislike nationalist socialists being termed "far right".

The primary attributes of a fascist are nationalism and authoritarianism. A nationalist who supports democracy is not a fascist, no matter how distasteful some such people may be.

You clearly have to be a nationalist to be in the FN. You have to be anti-immigration obviously. Do you have to be authoritarian to the point where you reject democracy?

[L00b 441]

I don't usually believe conspiracy theories but it seems to me that someone has deliberately stitched Francois Fillon up in the French election, to the benefit of Emmanuel Macron.

Fillon stitched himself up with putting his own skeletons in his cupboard.

 

He was careless with putting his wife on €80k p.a. at the taxpayer's expense to do little more than sod all, riding the "everyone else does it so it's no biggy" bandwagon. What he couldn't foresee at the time was how that would come back to bite him years later, in a campaign heavily tainted by populist swamp-cleaning rethoric peddled by LePen à la Trump (and the hypocrisy of which reaches oxygen-free heights, in view of her own expenses fiddling).

 

He's been no more stitched-up in that respect than past presidentiables, and he's no different to LePen and most other presidentiables, current or past. How many on here are aware of the EU Parliament investigation into Marine LePen's expenses (as an MEP). If you thought Farage was taking the pee with his EU expenses...wait until you take a look into hers!

 

Macron is still very young, so he has less skeletons, is all.

Well that's a good question.

I dislike labelling anti-immigration people "fascist" almost as much as I dislike nationalist socialists being termed "far right".

The primary attributes of a fascist are nationalism and authoritarianism. A nationalist who supports democracy is not a fascist, no matter how distasteful some such people may be.

You clearly have to be a nationalist to be in the FN. You have to be anti-immigration obviously. Do you have to be authoritarian to the point where you reject democracy?

You need to read up about the Vichy régime to understand the FN better, then take a look at their recent mayoral experience/record in Hayange and Béziers.

 

You can't even qualify the veneer that separates the FN's undeclared fascistic tendencies from their mediatised nationalist tendencies as 'thin': it's see-through.

 

Marine would give May lessons in authoritarianism, and then some. She's been at a good school with her dad, before the et tu brutus episode that propelled her at the head of the FN.

Edited March 22, 2017 by L00b