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How far will the rise of nationalistic populism go ?

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20 December at 09:18 ·

Wear it for the Sake of Allah!!

 

Attached to a Picture which I cannot directly copy to have copied the link.

 

 

The worst kind of coercion.

 

Maybe you need to check up what that word actually means.

 

 

And then, at the bottom of this page, take a look at a bunch of proud, confident women who choose to wear hijab - and explain what right you, or anyone else has, to stop them from doing so.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-beautiful-reasons-why-these-women-love-wearing-a-hijab_us_57320575e4b0bc9cb0482225

 

P.S. Make sure you read all the things those women are saying!

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But in the meantime a couple of countries could ditch the single currency and the Euro could collapse, and a couple of countries could follow Britain out of the EU and the EU could collapse.

 

Wishful thinking. This wont happen.

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2016 at 12:31 ----------

 

Maybe you need to check up what that word actually means.

 

"Indoctrination" is more accurate.

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Wishful thinking. This wont happen.

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2016 at 12:31 ----------

 

 

"Indoctrination" is more accurate.

 

Have you read the accounts of the women I linked to above?

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Perhaps you can define harm, because I'm not the one claiming that a hidden face causes any...

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2016 at 07:45 ----------

 

Do you imagine that they're all identical? They all wear the burqa for the same reasons? I'm absolutely sure that some are forced to wear it. I'm also sure that some choose to wear it, and that a lot are somewhere inbetween.

I'm equally sure that somewhere a prostitute is being forced to wear a mini skirt by her pimp. Should we ban the mini skirt to protect her? And women are forced by social conditioning and sometimes illegal work policies to wear high heels, perhaps we should ban those.

You think that seat belts are a form of clothing? You're stretching aren't you.

Personally I think that we should do away with most laws regarding clothing, the naked rambler should be free to wander around cold and naked for example and other people should be free to wear a head to toe burlap sack if they wish.

 

I never mentioned harm, you did. Masks have negative connotations unless they're there for safety reasons in our society. I just don't think it works in our society - and I'm not sure someone can be "proud and confident" wearing something like that, I mean how would you know! Too often it's used as a tool of oppression.

 

The naked rambler is an interesting case - one he seems happy to be jailed for, which is bizarre from both him and the state for wanting to jail him. But naturism is accepted even if some think it's a little odd. But one final point before I wish this thread a merry Christmas is that the more leeway you give full face coverings and highly conservative dress the the naked rambler and his ilk will get more opposition.

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I never mentioned harm, you did. Masks have negative connotations unless they're there for safety reasons in our society. I just don't think it works in our society - and I'm not sure someone can be "proud and confident" wearing something like that, I mean how would you know! Too often it's used as a tool of oppression.

 

The naked rambler is an interesting case - one he seems happy to be jailed for, which is bizarre from both him and the state for wanting to jail him. But naturism is accepted even if some think it's a little odd. But one final point before I wish this thread a merry Christmas is that the more leeway you give full face coverings and highly conservative dress the the naked rambler and his ilk will get more opposition.

 

Have you read the accounts of the women I linked to?

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Have you read the accounts of the women I linked to?

 

No. Will you read an equal number of accounts of women forced or at the very least coerced into wearing them? No.

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I hope and pray that actually being elections is the worst thing that will ever happen to these people, and that after Trump and Brexit no one will want to know this sort of politics for decades to come.

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Have you read the accounts of the women I linked to above?

 

Are a minority of a population typical of the entire group in your opinion?

 

To hear a person talk about how being controlled by men is liberating and something to take pride in, is the definition of indoctrination in my opinion.

Edited by Berberis

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Maybe you need to check up what that word actually means.

 

 

And then, at the bottom of this page, take a look at a bunch of proud, confident women who choose to wear hijab - and explain what right you, or anyone else has, to stop them from doing so.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-beautiful-reasons-why-these-women-love-wearing-a-hijab_us_57320575e4b0bc9cb0482225

 

P.S. Make sure you read all the things those women are saying!

 

I have no issue with the wearing of Hijab/ headscarf.

I have an issue with having the face covered as you will see from all my posts including the above.

The coercion in the link is very subtle

"Wear it for Allah"

is the ultimate coercion.

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Society coerces people to do things all the time, buy consumer goods, have sex, don't have sex, wear this clothing, don't wear this clothing, wear makeup, don't wear makeup, and so and so on.

We don't expect the state to pass judgement and make it illegal to do or not do those things though.

So if people with their faces covered make you uncomfortable, well, tough, it's a democracy, they don't have to behave as you'd like, unless they're actually causing harm, which they aren't.

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2016 at 15:01 ----------

 

Are a minority of a population typical of the entire group in your opinion?

 

Is there a majority you can point to as an alternative?

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2016 at 15:03 ----------

 

No. Will you read an equal number of accounts of women forced or at the very least coerced into wearing them? No.

 

And nobody has said that this should be allowed. The state should be on hand to protect these women.

That protection can't involve the suppression of the rights of other women though. It's basic common sense. You can't improve someone's freedom by telling them what they must do!

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2016 at 15:03 ----------

 

I never mentioned harm, you did.

 

Try again. I wasn't the first to mention it.

 

---------- Post added 23-12-2016 at 15:05 ----------

 

I never mentioned harm, you did. Masks have negative connotations unless they're there for safety reasons in our society. I just don't think it works in our society

Perhaps you can define our society then?

Does it mean eating fish and chips, or curry? Does it mean wearing a morris dancing costume, or a micro skirt and boob tube? Or perhaps dressing like a nun? Does it mean binge drinking on a Friday night, or not drinking at all.

All easy to answer I assume, as you find it easy to say that covering your face is not part of our society.

 

the more leeway you give full face coverings and highly conservative dress the the naked rambler and his ilk will get more opposition.

 

They are two sides of the same coin. Freedom to dress as they wish.

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Is there a majority you can point to as an alternative?

 

Why not make up your own mind by seeking out 1st hand evidence from people who have either cast off their coverings or left the religion all together. People with real experience unfiltered by the religion. I suspect if you only ever spoke to current members of the Scientology religion and took their views as factual, you might come to a different conclusion that the rest of us who are not members.

 

There is reason why women in the Islamic world are fighting for their rights, and as a country that takes pride in our freedoms, no one should apologise for a group that seeks to impose limitations on members of its group just because they were born without a penis.

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Why not make up your own mind by seeking out 1st hand evidence from people who have either cast off their coverings or left the religion all together. People with real experience unfiltered by the religion. I suspect if you only ever spoke to current members of the Scientology religion and took their views as factual, you might come to a different conclusion that the rest of us who are not members.

 

There is reason why women in the Islamic world are fighting for their rights, and as a country that takes pride in our freedoms, no one should apologise for a group that seeks to impose limitations on members of its group just because they were born without a penis.

 

Oh the irony. You can't liberate someone by denying them their rights.

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