Should I be allowed to burn the flag if I want to?

[mikem8634 10]

My bold=

I agree with this, Muslims being ostracised and blamed for actions of terrorists does sometimes push some towards radicalisation.

I have heard some Muslims say " we are never going to be accepted so why bother trying".

The anti Muslim sentiment is a factor that is I'm afraid leading some to believe that there is no point trying to integrate due to non acceptance and is a dangerous situation that if allowed to carry on will lead to more disaffected Muslims taking the path of extremism and taking religious scripture out of context.

 

That's exactly it.

 

---------- Post added 01-12-2016 at 13:13 ----------

 

An effect perhaps but very small.

 

That remains to be seen, but that is no reason not to try.

[unbeliever 10]

 

That remains to be seen, but that is no reason not to try.

 

As I say. You're proposing things which I wholeheartedly support anyway. We should do them. Just don't expect it to have an impact on the problem of Islamic fundamentalism.

[mikem8634 10]

As I say. You're proposing things which I wholeheartedly support anyway. We should do them. Just don't expect it to have an impact on the problem of Islamic fundamentalism.

 

I understand that we agree. I don't expect it to change the current picture in any way. I hope it may improve the future one.

[unbeliever 10]

I understand that we agree. I don't expect it to change the current picture in any way. I hope it may improve the future one.

 

I don't share your hope, but I shall be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong and I support your plans anyway.

[the_bloke 17]

As for whether people should speak out - they do. There was a march the other day that 1,000,000 (I believe - forgive me if that's slightly inaccurate) muslims marched on against ISIS. There were even articles on social media about 'why you won't have seen this news'.

 

Because it wasn't real?

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/facebook-trending-just-promoted-a-misleading-story-about-a-m?utm_term=.qvqbP47jey#.ioRBz12WPL

[unbeliever 10]

Because it wasn't real?

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/facebook-trending-just-promoted-a-misleading-story-about-a-m?utm_term=.qvqbP47jey#.ioRBz12WPL

 

Beat me to it.

[Andy1976 10]

Because it wasn't real?

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/facebook-trending-just-promoted-a-misleading-story-about-a-m?utm_term=.qvqbP47jey#.ioRBz12WPL

 

Didn't see that I'll admit. I didn't even read the article if I'm honest.

 

Interesting that these things are being invented though. Why feel the need? Hopefully it's showing some desire to heal what is becoming quite a rift between certain sections. Knowing humans, I doubt it though.

[mikem8634 10]

I don't share your hope, but I shall be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong and I support your plans anyway.

 

Fair enough. Either way, we want the same thing.

 

Because it wasn't real?

 

https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/facebook-trending-just-promoted-a-misleading-story-about-a-m?utm_term=.qvqbP47jey#.ioRBz12WPL

 

I don't do social media in the main. How big an issue is this fake news stuff?

Edited December 1, 2016 by mikem8634

[unbeliever 10]

I don't do social media in the main. How big an issue is this fake news stuff?

 

It's pretty routine. For all the ranting about bias, you're much better off trusting the professional media.

[mikem8634 10]

It's pretty routine. For all the ranting about bias, you're much better off trusting the professional media.

 

Probably right. At least you have an idea where you stand with them, usually because they are so obvious about where they stand. I can't think of a single source that I wouldn't treat with some healthy scepticism.

[Zamo 10]

My bold=

I agree with this, Muslims being ostracised and blamed for actions of terrorists does sometimes push some towards radicalisation.

I have heard some Muslims say " we are never going to be accepted so why bother trying".

The anti Muslim sentiment is a factor that is I'm afraid leading some to believe that there is no point trying to integrate due to non acceptance and is a dangerous situation that if allowed to carry on will lead to more disaffected Muslims taking the path of extremism and taking religious scripture out of context.

 

Is that how the Taliban came about? All the nasty non-Muslims in Afghanistan criticising Muslims and making them embrace extremism?

 

And whilst we're at it, how do you explain other religions not having an extremism problem? Why don't the followers of other religions want join murderous terror groups when their religion is criticised? Nothing but excuses and veiled threats... neither are acceptable.

 

If a Muslim burns the national flag in the West he might get abuse. If a non-Muslim burns the Koran anywhere where there are Muslims then he'd be attacked and possibly killed. That's the difference. That's the intolerance and anger issue with Islam that leads to extremism i.e. the 'moderate' position is already extreme. That's the issue that Muslims need to resolve if they want tolerance in the West to turn to acceptance. At the moment we are heading in the opposite direct towards rejection (think Brexit, Trump and the rise of the far right across Europe). Sulking, tantrums, threats and even violence are counter productive... sort it out!

[mikem8634 10]

Is that how the Taliban came about? All the nasty non-Muslims in Afghanistan criticising Muslims and making them embrace extremism?

 

Has anybody said that unfair criticism is the only thing that contributes to radicalisation? No, they haven't. So we can let your little invention of an argument rest there. I don't know why you keep trying these ploys when they are so transparent and so easily called out. It does you no credit.

 

 

And whilst we're at it, how do you explain other religions not having an extremism problem? Why don't the followers of other religions want join murderous terror groups when their religion is criticised? Nothing but excuses and veiled threats... neither are acceptable.

 

If you don't think that Christianity has an extremism problem then you are really not paying attention. My guess is you will attempt dismiss that by saying that Islamic extremism is more prevalent and worse, which I will not let you get away with. For the simple reason that, as I am sure you know, one thing being bigger than another does not stop the smaller thing from existing. So let's head that one off at the pass.

 

If a Muslim burns the national flag in the West he might get abuse. If a non-Muslim burns the Koran anywhere where there are Muslims then he'd be attacked and possibly killed. That's the difference. That's the intolerance and anger issue with Islam that leads to extremism i.e. the 'moderate' position is already extreme. That's the issue that Muslims need to resolve if they want tolerance in the West to turn to acceptance. At the moment we are heading in the opposite direct towards rejection (think Brexit, Trump and the rise of the far right across Europe). Sulking, tantrums, threats and even violence are counter productive... sort it out!

 

You don't just get to assert things and for them to become automatically true. I noticed you cited a Muslim burning a national flag vs. a non-Muslim burning the Quran - false equivalence. Where is your evidence that literally every single place where there are Muslims a Non-Muslim would be attacked and possibly killed for burning a Quran? Where is your evidence that the 'moderate' position is already extreme? Especially considering that the phrase itself is utter illogical nonsense as, by definition something moderate cannot be extreme. Have a look at the logical absolutes to avoid making that basic error again. This is just another way of saying that all Muslims are extremists, which is simply factually incorrect and there is no way around that for you.

 

Are you seriously suggesting there is no chance that a Muslim burning the stars and stripes or the Bible (to correct your false equivalence) in the US would be attacked or killed? Are you that entrenched in your rhetoric that you cannot accept that as a possibility. Have you seen a Trump rally? Or maybe The National Policy Institute? Do you think they would just ignore the Bible-burning Muslim and just go on with their Hitler salutes peacefully? How do you think Britain First or the EDL would respond.? How would it go down in one of National Action's White Zones in Newbury or Glasgow?

 

You carry exactly the same amount of guilt as the Muslims who do not launch attacks when their religious symbols are burnt ie. precisely none. So when are you going to sort out Islamic extremism. It is as much your responsibility as it is theirs because neither of you act in the way that you are suggesting needs sorting out.

 

And when you've finished sorting out the issues with Islam that you are not responsible for, I look forward to your detailed action plan for sorting out the problem of extremism in the right-wing, a group to which you belong and, you guessed it, for which you are, of course, not at all responsible. If you are going to impose burdens on innocent people who do not warrant them then pick up your own.

Edited December 2, 2016 by mikem8634