Buses in Sheffield/Buses in London

[*_ash_* 88]

All the 120s are full though. They just spend so long letting people on (students, who can't buy week passes because they aren't transferable between the operators) that the ones behind catch them up.

 

The idea would be that all singles are the same price (say £1). Then when you hit 3 singles it caps at a £3 all day rate etc. Or when you hit 10 singles it caps at a £10 week rate etc. Prices for all should go down because of the considerable efficiency savings.

 

That's all about turning the hundred year paper system electronic. Rather than introducing an purposely-designed electronic system

 

Algorithms can work it all out. Most other cities in the world have managed to do it

 

Good ideas. And yes, algorithms and systems these days could easily work it out.

[alchresearch 214]

Merseyside has the Walrus card:

 

http://www.merseytravel.gov.uk/tickets/walrus-card/pages/default.aspx

 

I don't think that many took it up though. I used mine once.

[Eater Sundae 12]

Machines that take cash but don't give change can speed things up. My senior travel pass isn't valid when I'm visiting my hometown in Scotland - so I have to pay in cash. The fares are all round sums, £1, £1.50 etc. People either buy prepaid tickets, same as here, or ensure they have change. Too many people with tenners here for a less than £2 fare taking up driver time sorting out change.

 

We also visit London most years, and i accept the transport there is funded differently. However, passengers are passengers IMO. We older people are the ones who are always represented as not liking change, or finding it hard to cope with. As anyone of State Pension age is likely to already travel free by bus, changing to cashless systems wouldn't affect us.

 

I remember, probably 25+ years ago, using buses where you dropped money into a chute, and in return received a ticket in the form of a photocopy of the money you had just put in. That worked well and was quick.

[Andy C 86]

'Pay as you go' smart card options are aimed at infrequent travellers (regular commuters buy weekly or monthly passes). In London there are two types of Oyster card - pay as you go or Travelcard season.

 

With Pay as you go you pay up front in advance to load credit onto the card then:

- on the underground, overground and Docklands Light Railway you tap in and tap out on the ticket barriers, it calculates the single fare and deducts it from your credit

- on buses and trams it is a flat fare, you tap in as you board and it deducts the single fare

- If you spend more on single fares than an all day Travelcard then the charges are capped at that level, so whether a day ticket or multiple singles are a better deal, you are confident you've got it right.

 

Now in London Transport for London pays operators to run services on their behalf with TfL keeping the revenue. Therefore the commercial risk is with the local authority and there is no revenue sharing or delayed cash flow to deal with.

 

On London buses only two methods of payment are allowed on board - contactless or Oyster - and it is a flat fare - so everyone literally just taps their card on the reader as they get on with little delays and little interaction with the driver. This does indeed improve dwell time at bus stops! I'm not sure a no cash policy would go down well in Sheffield though.

 

In Sheffield we have a system with several operators running commercially, additionally there is no flat fare system and no ticket barriers on the railway.

 

For Pay as you go to work we would need to move to flat fares on the buses and trams. Currently fares within Sheffield generally range from £1.80 to £2.50 so a flat fare I guess would be pitched at about £2.10. There is of course then the question about what to do with buses to Doncaster, Barnsley, Chesterfield, Bakewell, Castleton etc... This would probably mean it would end up with you telling the driver your destination and him/her deducting the relevant fare from your card. So what would it actually achieve - just do contactless debit cards instead!

 

In Sheffield we already load season tickets onto smart cards, mobile phone ticketing is also already here on First and launching on Stagecoach on the 24th November and contactless debit cards are expected to become usable on Stagecoach buses at some point next year with other operators following close behind.

 

I would suggest the time for pay as you go smart has been and gone and probably wouldn't have been very popular here anyway.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Andy C

[*_ash_* 88]

'Pay as you go' smart card options are aimed at infrequent travellers (regular commuters buy weekly or monthly passes). In London there are two types of Oyster card - pay as you go or Travelcard season.

 

With Pay as you go you pay up front in advance to load credit onto the card then:

- on the underground, overground and Docklands Light Railway you tap in and tap out on the ticket barriers, it calculates the single fare and deducts it from your credit

- on buses and trams it is a flat fare, you tap in as you board and it deducts the single fare

- If you spend more on single fares than an all day Travelcard then the charges are capped at that level, so whether a day ticket or multiple singles are a better deal, you are confident you've got it right.

 

Now in London Transport for London pays operators to run services on their behalf with TfL keeping the revenue. Therefore the commercial risk is with the local authority and there is no revenue sharing or delayed cash flow to deal with.

 

On London buses only two methods of payment are allowed on board - contactless or Oyster - and it is a flat fare - so everyone literally just taps their card on the reader as they get on with little delays and little interaction with the driver. This does indeed improve dwell time at bus stops! I'm not sure a no cash policy would go down well in Sheffield though.

 

In Sheffield we have a system with several operators running commercially, additionally there is no flat fare system and no ticket barriers on the railway.

 

For Pay as you go to work we would need to move to flat fares on the buses and trams. Currently fares within Sheffield generally range from £1.80 to £2.50 so a flat fare I guess would be pitched at about £2.10. There is of course then the question about what to do with buses to Doncaster, Barnsley, Chesterfield, Bakewell, Castleton etc... This would probably mean it would end up with you telling the driver your destination and him/her deducting the relevant fare from your card. So what would it actually achieve - just do contactless debit cards instead!

 

In Sheffield we already load season tickets onto smart cards, mobile phone ticketing is also already here on First and launching on Stagecoach on the 24th November and contactless debit cards are expected to become usable on Stagecoach buses at some point next year with other operators following close behind.

 

I would suggest the time for pay as you go smart has been and gone and probably wouldn't have been very popular here anyway.

 

Thanks Andy, that's a lot of info. More thought required!

[Sheff2006 10]

All the 120s are full though. They just spend so long letting people on (students, who can't buy week passes because they aren't transferable between the operators) that the ones behind catch them up.

 

The idea would be that all singles are the same price (say £1). Then when you hit 3 singles it caps at a £3 all day rate etc. Or when you hit 10 singles it caps at a £10 week rate etc. Prices for all should go down because of the considerable efficiency savings.

 

---------- Post added 17-11-2016 at 13:07 ----------

 

 

That's all about turning the hundred year paper system electronic. Rather than introducing an purposely-designed electronic system

 

Algorithms can work it all out. Most other cities in the world have managed to do it

 

The 120s may be full in and around the city centre but very rarely around the Halfway and Westfield section of the route especially in the evenings. However, a few things that do slow boarding down is the mass choice of different daily/weekly tickets, the amount of people who always need change from ten and twenty pound notes plus the fact that the thermal paper ticket machines print a good deal slower than the old Wayfarer machines.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Sheff2006

[Fudbeer 12]

I think much of the Sheffield bus using public would love the service you get on the 120.Modern comfortable buses that are frequent unlike the ancient old buses which are uncomfortable and frequently full you see rolling along Abbeydale and Eccelsall rd.

[northernboy 13]

London bus and tube fares have been frozen until 2020, it was reported today.

 

Could TFL take over our bus services please?

[Guest busdriver1]

I think much of the Sheffield bus using public would love the service you get on the 120.Modern comfortable buses that are frequent unlike the ancient old buses which are uncomfortable and frequently full you see rolling along Abbeydale and Eccelsall rd.

 

Oldest buses in sheffield now 15 years old. Not many of them though.

Most buses on Abbeydale Road under 3 years old

 

---------- Post added 18-11-2016 at 18:10 ----------

 

London bus and tube fares have been frozen until 2020, it was reported today.

 

Could TFL take over our bus services please?

 

You will have to pay the council tax that goes with it.

London manage it because they have about 8 or 9 million people in an area the size of South Yorkshire. To run it here would mean Council tax bill rises of about 400%

Bring it on

[northernboy 13]

A rise of 400% would be £716 million per year - seems a bit excessive just to make sure bus fares don't go up. I was only making a light-hearted comment anyway, which I tried to indicate by the wink at the end.

Edited November 19, 2016 by northernboy

[wagginfinger 10]

I believe that concessionary fares in London allow the users to still use some train journeys.

I think for the past 2years this is not so in our area. Does anyone know if this is true

[Isabelle 10]

I use one of the smart cards loaded with the appropriate ticket at one of those little kiosks. It would be great to be able to manage this online - anyone know whether this is being looked at?

 

I've got a Travelmaster smartcard, and it is a pain to have to make a separate trip to Hillsborough interchange or the city centre to top it up once a month.

I know you can do it in some shops, but there are none near me or on my route to work.

A pay as you go system would be better. I will be driving to work this week so my bus ticket will go to waste