Buses in Sheffield/Buses in London

[northernboy 13]

I use one of the smart cards loaded with the appropriate ticket at one of those little kiosks. It would be great to be able to manage this online - anyone know whether this is being looked at?

[Funky_Gibbon 42]

Different world down there!

 

It is a different world. One is given loads of money by the Government for transport and the other isn't. One is allowed to have proper regulated bus service, the other is forced to endure the joys of competition.

 

TFL have been receiving in the region of £550m a year funding for buses from Government. Sheffield on the other hand was given £18.3m in 2013 to be spent over a 5 year period, with maybe a couple of million more in the past few years for specific investment (some new Green buses etc)

 

Different world? No kidding.

[Ms Macbeth 73]

Machines that take cash but don't give change can speed things up. My senior travel pass isn't valid when I'm visiting my hometown in Scotland - so I have to pay in cash. The fares are all round sums, £1, £1.50 etc. People either buy prepaid tickets, same as here, or ensure they have change. Too many people with tenners here for a less than £2 fare taking up driver time sorting out change.

 

We also visit London most years, and i accept the transport there is funded differently. However, passengers are passengers IMO. We older people are the ones who are always represented as not liking change, or finding it hard to cope with. As anyone of State Pension age is likely to already travel free by bus, changing to cashless systems wouldn't affect us.

[Dan_Ashcroft 10]

Getting contactless payments on buses asap is a no brainer. And also one that defaults to the cheapest option, like the London system.

 

I would also like to see something like Oyster cards too, to protect against the tracking issue (if you don't register your card and only top it up with cash, you can have an anonymous one, like a PAYG mobile).

[chipspice 10]

I use one of the smart cards loaded with the appropriate ticket at one of those little kiosks. It would be great to be able to manage this online - anyone know whether this is being looked at?

 

my stagecoach smart card was set up online to take a direct debit every month so I never have to mess about topping it up.

[Sheff2006 10]

I would be glad of anything that speeds up buses in and around Sheffield. Bring back the old Fastline limited stop routes and reduce the frequency on the high frequency routes. Do we really need 3 x 120's together at once?

 

Regarding the cashless idea, how would this work with single fares when you only want to travel a short distance on a long distance route? For example, get on a bus at Halfway but only want to go to Crystal Peaks. This would be a cheaper single fare than travelling on the same bus all the way to Fulwood which would cost more.

[*_ash_* 88]

I would be glad of anything that speeds up buses in and around Sheffield. Bring back the old Fastline limited stop routes and reduce the frequency on the high frequency routes. Do we really need 3 x 120's together at once?

 

Regarding the cashless idea, how would this work with single fares when you only want to travel a short distance on a long distance route? For example, get on a bus at Halfway but only want to go to Crystal Peaks. This would be a cheaper single fare than travelling on the same bus all the way to Fulwood which would cost more.

 

It would need some thought of course. I don't know what cheaper fares are, or most expensive single is.

 

Perhaps a 2 colour smartcard, one for children and senior citizens that take a flat £1 for each journey, and one for adults that takes a flat rate £2? (or 75/150 whatever is close to ave)

[northernboy 13]

my stagecoach smart card was set up online to take a direct debit every month so I never have to mess about topping it up.

 

Sounds good, however I need a City Bus, not just Stagecoach, and I can't find anything about online topups for those.

[sheffbag 227]

Must be a quiet news week if this is getting mentioned again.

 

South Yorkshire (because we aren't just talking Sheffield here) is not London. you cant have "Oyster" here because it is private different companies operating, not just one effective controlling entity (TfL).

 

Contactless is on the way but its a massive investment across the whole bus network for the "big operators" not just in SY. That takes time, testing and approval. Again different to London.

 

Capping? Here's why multi op capping wont work

 

1. Whats the default capping time - Day? Week? Month?

2. Once capped then who pays for the other journeys

3. How is the revenue split between the operators? Is it %passengers carried, % KM travelled?

4. If you do all your journeys on one operator then do they keep all the revenue

5. If you ran a bus company would you be happy to see revenue drop even though you are taking the same number of passengers?

6. How do you calculate the fare to be deducted? SY doesn't operate a tap on - tap off system?

7. Do you boundary this to Sheffield only? If so then what about journeys going out of zone / Journeys coming into zone

[northernboy 13]

Doesn't the current CityWide/CityBus system also have some of those points?

1. daily/weekly/monthly tickets already exist - the caps can be the same as the current prices

2. same as CityWide/Bus

3. split it the same way as CityWide/Bus (whatever that is)

4. same as CityWide/Bus

5. it needn't necessarily drop if point 1 is followed

6. same as CityWide/Bus

7. PTE operates across South Yorkshire. For buses which continue outside the area, same arrangements as now, i.e. your ticket will take you to the boundary

[*_ash_* 88]

Must be a quiet news week if this is getting mentioned again.

 

South Yorkshire (because we aren't just talking Sheffield here) is not London. you cant have "Oyster" here because it is private different companies operating, not just one effective controlling entity (TfL).

 

Contactless is on the way but its a massive investment across the whole bus network for the "big operators" not just in SY. That takes time, testing and approval. Again different to London.

 

Capping? Here's why multi op capping wont work

 

1. Whats the default capping time - Day? Week? Month?

2. Once capped then who pays for the other journeys

3. How is the revenue split between the operators? Is it %passengers carried, % KM travelled?

4. If you do all your journeys on one operator then do they keep all the revenue

5. If you ran a bus company would you be happy to see revenue drop even though you are taking the same number of passengers?

6. How do you calculate the fare to be deducted? SY doesn't operate a tap on - tap off system?

7. Do you boundary this to Sheffield only? If so then what about journeys going out of zone / Journeys coming into zone

 

Yes, I asked this in the other thread:

 

Do you know how this worked out Andy? If so (for example using the day-figure), is the extra 30p going into a pot to split, and take a chance?

 

Or are both splitting say £1.30 of the total, and keeping the rest and taking a chance?

 

Otherwise, popular routes would become unfair fare wise for one company over the other, if one has pretty much the monopoly over a good route, pre-new ticket price. (and if £4.30 works out better than £4 if the buses are quite random on another route)

[Dan_Ashcroft 10]

I would be glad of anything that speeds up buses in and around Sheffield. Bring back the old Fastline limited stop routes and reduce the frequency on the high frequency routes. Do we really need 3 x 120's together at once?

 

Regarding the cashless idea, how would this work with single fares when you only want to travel a short distance on a long distance route? For example, get on a bus at Halfway but only want to go to Crystal Peaks. This would be a cheaper single fare than travelling on the same bus all the way to Fulwood which would cost more.

 

All the 120s are full though. They just spend so long letting people on (students, who can't buy week passes because they aren't transferable between the operators) that the ones behind catch them up.

 

The idea would be that all singles are the same price (say £1). Then when you hit 3 singles it caps at a £3 all day rate etc. Or when you hit 10 singles it caps at a £10 week rate etc. Prices for all should go down because of the considerable efficiency savings.

 

---------- Post added 17-11-2016 at 13:07 ----------

 

Must be a quiet news week if this is getting mentioned again.

 

South Yorkshire (because we aren't just talking Sheffield here) is not London. you cant have "Oyster" here because it is private different companies operating, not just one effective controlling entity (TfL).

 

Contactless is on the way but its a massive investment across the whole bus network for the "big operators" not just in SY. That takes time, testing and approval. Again different to London.

 

Capping? Here's why multi op capping wont work

 

1. Whats the default capping time - Day? Week? Month?

2. Once capped then who pays for the other journeys

3. How is the revenue split between the operators? Is it %passengers carried, % KM travelled?

4. If you do all your journeys on one operator then do they keep all the revenue

5. If you ran a bus company would you be happy to see revenue drop even though you are taking the same number of passengers?

6. How do you calculate the fare to be deducted? SY doesn't operate a tap on - tap off system?

7. Do you boundary this to Sheffield only? If so then what about journeys going out of zone / Journeys coming into zone

 

That's all about turning the hundred year paper system electronic. Rather than introducing an purposely-designed electronic system

 

Algorithms can work it all out. Most other cities in the world have managed to do it