How do you stop the queue jumping motorists ?

[TimmyR 10]

Just in case this thread hasn't gone on long enough, this is what it says in "Roadcraft The Police Drivers Handbook" about lane closures:

 

"Merging with other traffic requires judgement and courtesy. It is sensible for vehicles from each lane to merge alternately. But these situations often create conflict and result in collisions. Allow a reasonable following gap and never close up to prevent other vehicles merging"

 

Take from that what you will. I don't personally think its entirely clear when you should merge just that you should do it in turn.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2016 at 07:51 ----------

 

So in your world if a line of traffic is moving it isn't a queue, OK I can work with that.

 

Based on your posts I will answer the question for you.

 

You are driving along a stretch of duel carriage way when you come across a line of traffic in the left lane moving at 40mph, you start to overtake because you are in a rush and can't understand why they are all moving so slow, within a short distance you notice a road works sign and a sign indicating that the lane you are in is closed in 800 yards. But you still don't understand why traffic in the left lane is moving 40mph instead of the 70mph speed limit so you carry on rushing down the open lane, as you reach the cones you squeeze into a gap, slow to 40mph and think to your self what a bunch of idiots why didn't they all do what I did. You are now doing 40mph in the line of flowing traffic, totaly unaware or uncaring that your actions have brought the moving line of traffic to a stand still 100 yard behind you. This gives other impatient driver even more justification to overtake it and squeeze in.

 

If you had moved in behind it it would have carried on flowing, it would have taken you a little longer to get to your destination but no one else would have been delayed. Drivers like you cause the problems and then use the problem you cause as justification to make queue jump.

 

The problem of queue jumping only exists because there is no signage to indicate to merge in turn at the last minute. If such signage were used then the problem goes away. You can no longer push in because all lanes are all in use.

[Petminder 10]

Just in case this thread hasn't gone on long enough, this is what it says in "Roadcraft The Police Drivers Handbook" about lane closures:

 

"Merging with other traffic requires judgement and courtesy. It is sensible for vehicles from each lane to merge alternately. But these situations often create conflict and result in collisions. Allow a reasonable following gap and never close up to prevent other vehicles merging"

 

Take from that what you will. I don't personally think its entirely clear when you should merge just that you should do it in turn.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2016 at 07:51 ----------

 

 

The problem of queue jumping only exists because there is no signage to indicate to merge in turn at the last minute. If such signage were used then the problem goes away. You can no longer push in because all lanes are all in use.

 

I would think the courtesy bit means once you are aware that your lane is closed don't rush past everyone in the open lane and push in, The courteous thing to do would be to match your speed with those already in the open lane and move into it when it is safe to do so.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2016 at 08:03 ----------

 

 

The problem of queue jumping only exists because there is no signage to indicate to merge in turn at the last minute. If such signage were used then the problem goes away. You can no longer push in because all lanes are all in use.

 

It would indeed but it would mean having absolute trust that everyone was going to play ball or moving very slowly.

 

 

It looks to me like those doing the overtaking and pushing in are doing so because they fear someone pushing in front of them if they don't.

[Bodie 11]

a sign indicating that the lane you are in is closed in 800 yards.

Here is the clue!! 800 yards! Not at the first sign or the back of an unnecessary queue! If the road workers wanted 1 lane only at 800 yards from the merge point the lane would be closed 800 yards FURTHER back.

 

You get these warning so you don't suddenly come across a closed lane. Lane closed 800 yards, 600 yards, 400 yards, 200 yards lane closed - merge in turn...simple.

 

Often there can be nearly 800 yards of unused open road and I will use it up to the merge point. As the signs clearly say where the lane is closed!!

 

I'll repeat for those slower readers - the lane closure is AFTER 800 yards, AFTER 600 yards, AFTER 400 yards, AFTER 200 yards.......then we get to the lane closure that you was warned about 800 yards further back.

 

The warnings are for you to adjust speed accordingly and watch out for some self righteous licence holding anus playing games and blocking a free and open lane for no reason other than they don't know how to drive.

[Petminder 10]

Here is the clue!! 800 yards! Not at the first sign or the back of an unnecessary queue! If the road workers wanted 1 lane only at 800 yards from the merge point the lane would be closed 800 yards FURTHER back.

 

You get these warning so you don't suddenly come across a closed lane. Lane closed 800 yards, 600 yards, 400 yards, 200 yards lane closed - merge in turn...simple.

 

Often there can be nearly 800 yards of unused open road and I will use it up to the merge point. As the signs clearly say where the lane is closed!!

 

I'll repeat for those slower readers - the lane closure is AFTER 800 yards, AFTER 600 yards, AFTER 400 yards, AFTER 200 yards.......then we get to the lane closure that you was warned about 800 yards further back.

 

The warnings are for you to adjust speed accordingly and watch out for some self righteous licence holding anus playing games and blocking a free and open lane for no reason other than they don't know how to drive.

 

How does you rushing to the front of the queue and pushing in increase traffic flow past the obstruction?

[Bodie 11]

How does you rushing to the front of the queue and pushing in increase traffic flow past the obstruction?

 

I'm not rushing to the front of a queue I'm using a clear bit of open road towards a lane closure point where the signs I've been reading 800 yards ago have been informing me about.

 

I didn't notice any sign whatsoever about increasing traffic flow past an obstruction.

[RootsBooster 24]

It would indeed but it would mean having absolute trust that everyone was going to play ball or moving very slowly.

 

 

It looks to me like those doing the overtaking and pushing in are doing so because they fear someone pushing in front of them if they don't.

 

I think it's more like those who choose to queue do so because they fear people not letting them in if they used the other lane.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2016 at 08:50 ----------

 

I'm not rushing to the front of a queue I'm using a clear bit of open road towards a lane closure point where the signs I've been reading 800 yards ago have been informing me about.

 

I didn't notice any sign whatsoever about increasing traffic flow past an obstruction.

 

Quite, every night casually drive between 30 - 40mph down the mostly empty right lane of the A57 off the Parkway, down to the merge in turn. There's no rushing or pushing involved (there is, however, some blocking from the queue fans on occasion).

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2016 at 08:54 ----------

 

They will be moving slower approaching, they start slow so will take longer to get through, if it takes longer to get through fewer cars get through, which leave more cares waiting to get through. You must accept that when two queue of traffic want to move into the same bit of road at a given point, at that point they must be moving slowly, because if they are moving fast the consequences of one not giving way would be catastrophic.

I accept they may slow when approaching the merge point. What I'm asking is why you think they would continue to drive at that speed once merged and in a single lane.

 

In typical Smiffy style, you appear to be wriggling around the question at hand.

 

I notice that you never gave an answer to my question above. Can you explain why you think the cars would continue to drive at the same speed once merged and in a single lane?

[Petminder 10]

I'm not rushing to the front of a queue I'm using a clear bit of open road towards a lane closure point where the signs I've been reading 800 yards ago have been informing me about.

 

I didn't notice any sign whatsoever about increasing traffic flow past an obstruction.

 

So if you go for some fish and chips and there is a queue up to the door of the chip shop but some available space inside the chip shop, do you push in at the front or wait your turn?

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2016 at 09:27 ----------

 

I think it's more like those who choose to queue do so because they fear people not letting them in if they used the other lane.

Its just polite not pushing in, I have on occasion not joined the back of the queue, back to the chip shop, the queue was just outside the door but there was some space inside the chip shop, it was raining and cold so I went into the shop, its didn't occur to me that the people in the queue were stupid or that I deserved to be served before them. So I waited out of the queue and then rejoined behind everyone that got there before me.

 

 

I notice that you never gave an answer to my question above. Can you explain why you think the cars would continue to drive at the same speed once merged and in a single lane?

 

Its funny that you want me to answer a question about something I haven't said whilst you avoid the questions I ask.

 

Its take longer to get past a given point if you are not moving just before you get to it. In my experience cars can't go from zero to 40mph in zero time.

[alchresearch 214]

All these "merge in turn" arguments could be resolved with some simple signage on the roads.

 

Whenever there are signs indicating to form two lanes and merge in turn (usually for roadworks) I've never see any issues.

[Obelix 11]

So in your world if a line of traffic is moving it isn't a queue, OK I can work with that.

 

Based on your posts I will answer the question for you.

 

You are driving along a stretch of duel carriage way when you come across a line of traffic in the left lane moving at 40mph, you start to overtake because you are in a rush and can't understand why they are all moving so slow, within a short distance you notice a road works sign and a sign indicating that the lane you are in is closed in 800 yards. But you still don't understand why traffic in the left lane is moving 40mph instead of the 70mph speed limit so you carry on rushing down the open lane, as you reach the cones you squeeze into a gap, slow to 40mph and think to your self what a bunch of idiots why didn't they all do what I did. You are now doing 40mph in the line of flowing traffic, totaly unaware or uncaring that your actions have brought the moving line of traffic to a stand still 100 yard behind you. This gives other impatient driver even more justification to overtake it and squeeze in.

 

If you had moved in behind it it would have carried on flowing, it would have taken you a little longer to get to your destination but no one else would have been delayed. Drivers like you cause the problems and then use the problem you cause as justification to make queue jump.

 

By your argument above no matter where I merge I cause everyone to stop 100 yards behind me.

 

Of course in the real world this just doesn't happen. It's only in your fevered imagination of outrage Smithy where that actually happens.

 

Now take the M1 last night. Everyone had moved over to the right hand lane, and then someone came zooming up the inside and merged in at the end just before the cones.

 

I didn't even have to brake. So tell me how there could possibly be such a coalescence of stationary traffic magically appearing even if I didn't brake....?

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2016 at 09:42 ----------

 

So if you go for some fish and chips and there is a queue up to the door of the chip shop but some available space inside the chip shop, do you push in at the front or wait your turn.

 

Which is not the same thing at all as well you know so please take the strawman elsewhere.

[Petminder 10]

All these "merge in turn" arguments could be resolved with some simple signage on the roads.

 

Whenever there are signs indicating to form two lanes and merge in turn (usually for roadworks) I've never see any issues.

 

If it ever became official policy then it would be wise to put signs up. The problem we have at the moment is that the majority do it in a way that is expected whilst a minority disagree and want to do it in away they believe to be more efficient, this unfortunately leads to lower efficiency and more accidents.

[Obelix 11]

Proof it causes more accidents Smithy? Proof it's lower in efficiency please.

[Petminder 10]

By your argument above no matter where I merge I cause everyone to stop 100 yards behind me.

 

People slow down behind the point of merge not in front, and the closer to the front you go the more people you affect.

 

I get that when you see queue you don't want to add to its length, so you incorrectly assume that if you push in you don't increase its length, if there are 10 people in a queue and you join it at the back there are now 11 people in the queue, no matter where you push into the queue there will still be 11 people in the queue, if you join the back everyone is happy apart from you, if you push in some will be angry and may well do what the driver did on the video, or in a shop they might even force you back out of the queue.