When will the political left change/learn?

[phil752 10]

Then that's fine. I really don't know how many times I have to spell it out, it's not about who your voted for, it's simply about knowing what and why you are voting.

 

Area51 if you did your research and are happy with what you voted for then that's clearly absolutely fine and dandy, both of us are lucky to live in a world where we can argue online, disagree and still go for a pint together afterwards without either of us being executed for treason. I might even buy

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2016 at 10:08 ----------

 

 

Why is that the fault of someone who has had their entire life taken from them through simply living in the wrong country?

 

I'm not saying we should simply chuck open the doors without any controls, but to say that someone who just happened to be born here, with all the opportunities that in itself offers, somehow DESERVES a house or a secure life more than someone who had none of the opportunities we had and has now had everything they worked so hard for bombed out from underneath them, had rape threats, children trying to be forced into child soldiers etc, then I disagree.

 

No its our government fault, I would think that if you work contribute to your own nation, i do think you should have a priority yes.

[syne 10]

snip

when in reality the issues stem further and longer but the left are so busy being offended they are not debating with the right to see all the topics and the full picture,

Snip

 

It's not that the left don't see what the right see, its more that the proposed solution to what the right sees as a problem isn't going to do what they think it is.

 

So please enlighten us what exactly is the problem that trump/fararge is the answer to..

Because it comes across as a regression, an isolationist ideal that appears to be trying to bury it's head in the sand to the fact there's a whole world of people who are jus.. Ah, what's the point..

[elgoog44 10]

It's not that the left don't see what the right see, its more that the proposed solution to what the right sees as a problem isn't going to do what they think it is.

 

So please enlighten us what exactly is the problem that trump/fararge is the answer to..

Because it comes across as a regression, an isolationist ideal that appears to be trying to bury it's head in the sand to the fact there's a whole world of people who are jus.. Ah, what's the point..

 

So please enlighten us what exactly is the problem that trump/fararge is the answer to..

 

Not a question I have the answer to but what ever people think it is maybe we should listen, I voted remain as I felt and feel it suits the engenders closest to me,

 

this is the perfect example for what I am talking about "Ah, what's the point.." rather than try and see from someone else point of view

[Zamo 10]

So if for example we could control immigration from Lancashire to Yorkshire, what benefits would we see?

 

What makes you think that France to UK is different to Lancashire to Yorkshire? It's just a question of perspective isn't it?

 

No it isn't. The people of Lancashire and Yorkshire share the same language, culture and government. The welfare system is the same, with the money coming from the same pot. The taxation is the same, with the money going into the same pot. They have the same free access to education. They live according to the same laws and are subject to the same justice system. They share national identity and their financial fortunes are linked to the same economy. Residents from both counties that join the armed forces, live, train and fight together. They vote in the same general elections and make collective and democratic choices together. These bonds are what make the country as a whole united, strong and peaceful. It is very different to the far more fragile bonds that exist between different nations.

 

A one-size-fits-all open border policy, as we have in the EU, is illogical and ultimately divisive. It inevitable means one way, and large scale, migration from the poorer nations to the richer ones. It means the richer nations end up dealing with problems such as pressure on school places, housing, public services and health services. It means there is more competition for jobs and that makes it harder for the natives to find work and wages are suppressed. It can result in significant and rapid cultural changes within communities that many natives do not want or like. And all of this leads to resentment, anger and division. It is an immigration policy for Utopia not this world.

 

---------- Post added 16-11-2016 at 13:31 ----------

 

I live in Pitsmoor. It's not a ghetto, it's just a very ethnically diverse area. Even white people live here, shock. If anyone has moved out because they don't like brown people then that makes them racists. I'm still here, because like loads of other white people I'm happy to live alongside brown people. Because I'm not racist. Ghetto is now used as a pejorative term and only by racists.

 

People of different cultures can live very differently and believe in very different things and, for the communal beast that we humans are, that can be a problem.

 

You should also note that as white people left Pitsmoor to live amongst more white people, they were replaced by brown person moving in to live amongst more brown people. Funny how you only see a one way street of racism isn't it?

 

The truth is it isn't racism but human nature for people to want the familiarity and comfort of culture and community - you grossly overstate how important skin tone is to people. Yet you sneer at (white) people for wanting it and call them racist to justify ignoring legitimate concerns about uncontrolled immigration. It is both pathetic and futile.

[Santo 10]

[/b]

 

would the term mini psychological Berlin walls make you feel any better ?because thats whatI see spreading across the cities and towns of Britain.

 

Why is it racist exactly? It is entirely normal human behavior that is seen throughout the entire animal kingdom and nature as a whole. Why are you so intent on forcing people together and 'integration'?

 

 

If whites want to live with other whites only, and blacks with blacks etc, then leave them alone and let them!

 

do you call other communities racist like,Indians, Jews, polish, Chinese, etc because they group together?

 

 

When the Chinese firm a ghetto, it's given a cute name "Chinatown".....it's ok for some groups to live in their own groups in their own areas yet it's not for others. Double standards

 

On the one hand you seem to be advocating areas of cities for only one particular race but on the other saying it creates psychological Berlin Walls.

 

I think you tried to be clever and failed so your post makes no sense at all. Unless you think psychological Berlin Walls are a good thing?

Edited November 16, 2016 by Santo

[Cyclone 10]

No it isn't. The people of Lancashire and Yorkshire share the same language, culture and government. The welfare system is the same, with the money coming from the same pot. The taxation is the same, with the money going into the same pot. They have the same free access to education. They live according to the same laws and are subject to the same justice system. They share national identity and their financial fortunes are linked to the same economy. Residents from both counties that join the armed forces, live, train and fight together. They vote in the same general elections and make collective and democratic choices together. These bonds are what make the country as a whole united, strong and peaceful. It is very different to the far more fragile bonds that exist between different nations.

Sounds like an argument for greater european integration to me.

Lets pay european taxes, lets have european standard education, and we already manage multiple languages in the UK, so I see no issues with language.

[Guest]

Sounds like an argument for greater european integration to me.

Lets pay european taxes, lets have european standard education, and we already manage multiple languages in the UK, so I see no issues with language.

 

The country has just voted for Brexit, so the idea is a bit of a non starter.

[unbeliever 10]

Sounds like an argument for greater european integration to me.

Lets pay european taxes, lets have european standard education, and we already manage multiple languages in the UK, so I see no issues with language.

 

 

There's clearly an optimal size for a state. You seem to think it's 7 billion. The consensus in the UK is about 2 orders of magnitude smaller.

[Robin-H 11]

I live in Pitsmoor. It's not a ghetto, it's just a very ethnically diverse area. Even white people live here, shock. If anyone has moved out because they don't like brown people then that makes them racists. I'm still here, because like loads of other white people I'm happy to live alongside brown people. Because I'm not racist. Ghetto is now used as a pejorative term and only by racists.

 

Hasn't the term ghetto always been pejorative? It originally meant the area of Italian cities where the Jews were allowed to live (the were not allowed to live elsewhere).

[Berberis 10]

No it isn't. The people of Lancashire and Yorkshire share the same language, culture and government. The welfare system is the same, with the money coming from the same pot. The taxation is the same, with the money going into the same pot. They have the same free access to education. They live according to the same laws and are subject to the same justice system. They share national identity and their financial fortunes are linked to the same economy. Residents from both counties that join the armed forces, live, train and fight together. They vote in the same general elections and make collective and democratic choices together. These bonds are what make the country as a whole united, strong and peaceful. It is very different to the far more fragile bonds that exist between different nations.

 

Zamo,

 

In 1939 the people of Bavaria and Brandenburg share the same language, culture and government. The welfare system is the same, with the money coming from the same pot. The taxation is the same, with the money going into the same pot. They have the same free access to education. They live according to the same laws and are subject to the same justice system. They share national identity and their financial fortunes are linked to the same economy. Residents from both states join the armed forces, live, train and fight together. They vote in the same general elections and make collective and democratic choices together. These bonds are what make the country as a whole united, strong and ..... you get my point right?

[psynuk 10]

Not a question I have the answer to but what ever people think it is maybe we should listen.

 

this is the perfect example for what I am talking about "Ah, what's the point.." rather than try and see from someone else point of view

 

mmmmk.

 

Oh I can try and see it from someone else's point of view that isn't really an issue.

But this point of view needs to be available to see. It's not.

 

It's an ill defined backlash against 'woe is me, I'm not a special snowflake and it's all X's fault'.

I'd say the vast majority of 'right' leaning voters of the recent elections (not the knowing or well off conservative types but the new wave sheep converts) are going to be everso disappointed when they realise the jobs aren't coming back and the immigrants are still coming -because they're essential workers - The Conservative capitalist inclination that the left had tempered somewhat won't bring standards for all up.

The safeguards that are mostly attributed to the 'left' are being eroded in favour of corporate type solutions to shrink the state and grow the private faction.

The pool of talent that forms the newly voted 'right' are the same pool that pours money down the throats of bankers and landowners, of titled and favoured persons. This is the set of people who caused masses of misery via feudalism, fraud, self interest, lies to incite war, bribery and politicking, kowtowing to big business interests when they should have been serving the taxpayers of the world first and foremost.

 

From what I can gather the jist of things is

'Our country back','We don't want immigrants unless there of the 'good' variety', 'we want jobs for our 'own' kind', 'we want to be in control of our own borders', 'we want to lower the deficit and blah blah blah.'

 

It's almost a sham, voting from the same set of pigs but with a different type of silver tongued promises that apparently captured the imaginations of just enough..

 

The irony in all this is that the only thing that keeps the 'right' wing loons in check is the necessity of stability required of productive nations to function as part of capitalism.

Also the 'problem' which stems from the ever increasing requirement for profit and not some **** poor immigrant trying to take your potato picking job that you didn't even want anyway.

 

Or is it something else?

[phil752 10]

mmmmk.

 

Oh I can try and see it from someone else's point of view that isn't really an issue.

But this point of view needs to be available to see. It's not.

 

It's an ill defined backlash against 'woe is me, I'm not a special snowflake and it's all X's fault'.

I'd say the vast majority of 'right' leaning voters of the recent elections (not the knowing or well off conservative types but the new wave sheep converts) are going to be everso disappointed when they realise the jobs aren't coming back and the immigrants are still coming -because they're essential workers - The Conservative capitalist inclination that the left had tempered somewhat won't bring standards for all up.

The safeguards that are mostly attributed to the 'left' are being eroded in favour of corporate type solutions to shrink the state and grow the private faction.

The pool of talent that forms the newly voted 'right' are the same pool that pours money down the throats of bankers and landowners, of titled and favoured persons. This is the set of people who caused masses of misery via feudalism, fraud, self interest, lies to incite war, bribery and politicking, kowtowing to big business interests when they should have been serving the taxpayers of the world first and foremost.

 

From what I can gather the jist of things is

'Our country back','We don't want immigrants unless there of the 'good' variety', 'we want jobs for our 'own' kind', 'we want to be in control of our own borders', 'we want to lower the deficit and blah blah blah.'

 

It's almost a sham, voting from the same set of pigs but with a different type of silver tongued promises that apparently captured the imaginations of just enough..

 

The irony in all this is that the only thing that keeps the 'right' wing loons in check is the necessity of stability required of productive nations to function as part of capitalism.

Also the 'problem' which stems from the ever increasing requirement for profit and not some **** poor immigrant trying to take your potato picking job that you didn't even want anyway.

 

Or is it something else?

 

The problem is its not potato picking job, the rich have flooded their factories with contract migrant workers.