HMO property insurance

[coop 10]

My Son owns a house in Sheffield's Article 4 area. On both sides of his are licenced HMO's. As far as he can ascertain, neither of them has planning permission to be HMO's (apparently the department that issues the licences doers not check whether the houses in question actually have the relevant planning permission before issuing the licences!!).

 

My question relates to his house insurance. If one of the adjoining HMO's was to catch fire and damaged his property. Would the property insurance on the HMO's be valid and honoured for the third parties if they do not have the relevant planning permission?

[spider1 11]

If its not gone through planning doubt very much they will be insured / Will it have fire doors etc but you already new this.

[coop 10]

Thanks, but if the worst was to happen, would my son need to claim off his own insurance or would the HMO insurers pay out? If the former then he would be out of pocket. Could he sue the Council????

[spider1 11]

Thanks, but if the worst was to happen, would my son need to claim off his own insurance or would the HMO insurers pay out? If the former then he would be out of pocket. Could he sue the Council????

 

He would have to claim off his own insurance . No way would the council pay out if flats were privately owned. Seems to me your son should phone planning and check his concerns out regarding this and i dont see how they have got a licence regarding H.M.O. with out planning ./ Seem to to me the other owners are letting illegaly and are being a bit inconveinient with the truth to your son.

This happens a lot in letting game and i guess it would be hard to prove how many were living there. Student area i guess and they come and go like flies . I dont know were Sheffield's Article 4 area is as it dosnt have a post code so you will have to be more specific.

Edited November 10, 2016 by spider1

[coop 10]

The article 4 area is an area defined by the council in a bid to stop too many houses being used as HMO's. However apparently the dept that issues the HMO licences does not check whether the properties in question actually have the relevant planning permission. Apparently its a well known secret within the landlord circles!! Are there any landlords reading that can contradict me (or confirm this)?

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

He would have to claim off his own insurance.

Yes, His insurer would itself then use Right of Subrogation to extract reimbursement from the neighbour's insurer or- failing that- the neighbour in person.

[coop 10]

many thanks Mr Shaw

[spider1 11]

Quite possible if there is no mortgage on the properties they are not insured. Think its up to the owner if he insures them or not.

Edited November 11, 2016 by spider1

[Stuhouselet 10]

If its not gone through planning doubt very much they will be insured / Will it have fire doors etc but you already new this.

 

Not correct

 

---------- Post added 12-11-2016 at 16:09 ----------

 

The article 4 area is an area defined by the council in a bid to stop too many houses being used as HMO's. However apparently the dept that issues the HMO licences does not check whether the properties in question actually have the relevant planning permission. Apparently its a well known secret within the landlord circles!! Are there any landlords reading that can contradict me (or confirm this)?

 

No hidden secret I have ever heard of!

Planning permission is not needed for a small HMO unless in an article 4 area - in which case he would not get it.

 

Outside article 4 areas planning permission will be needed for larger HMO as will a HMO licence

 

---------- Post added 12-11-2016 at 16:10 ----------

 

Quite possible if there is no mortgage on the properties they are not insured. Think its up to the owner if he insures them or not.

 

Yes you are correct, but I doubt many landlords without mortgages choose to have no property insurance.

 

---------- Post added 12-11-2016 at 16:32 ----------

 

OP

 

Why doesn't your son approach the landlord/s and express his concerns about insurance/fire etc?

 

I certainly would not have any problem regarding neighbours contacting me to discuss matters relating to my properties.

[coop 10]

This seems to be changing into a thread about HMO licencing rather than insurance. However having spoken to various landlords in the HMO business it does seem as though the Council is giving licences without the properties having the correct planning permission

[RWM1967 10]

There are far more fire safety regulations in HMOs than in whole house tenancies, so if there were to be a fire, then there is far more protection for residents, e.g. protected escape routes, fire doors, fire retardant plasterboard, mains interlinked fire alarm systems, etc. None of these are legal requirements in whole house tenancies, they only need basic fire alarms. Owner occupied properties don't even need (as a legal requirement) fire alarms!!! Thus, in terms of fire safety, it is probably much safer to live next to a HMO than it is to a house let to a family, or to an owner occupied property.