The Consequences of Brexit (part 2)

[chalga 10]

I agree we need to get our own unemployed and under-employed to take such jobs whether they want them or not. But EU laws would make it illegal to discriminate against non-British national as you suggest... so presumably you support Brexit so we can make our own rules?

 

---------- Post added 26-11-2016 at 23:28 ----------

 

 

Both sides lied and mislead and will have received votes as a result... shame you are so biased you can't see that.

 

Of course there was a plan. The plan was to ask the public if they wanted to remain in the EU and if they said 'no' then the government of the day would negotiate trading arrangements for our post-EU future. What other plan could there possibly be?!?

 

And if we are going to talk about lies then what should we make the OBR claim that the government will need to borrow £75k each year for every migrant that no longer comes to the UK as a result of Brexit? Funny how someone so passionate about honesty is so silent when BS is used to promote their political position... off that high horse if you please.

 

Oh,for sure I agree.......anything that stops immigrants from being stigmatised for working I agree with,even if it means having laws to stop them coming.....start by making a law so that it's illegal for British business to give jobs to foreigners,that'll stop 'em creating them or having an immigrant turn up for it.........then they can tell 'em to get lost without fear and wait a few years while a more suitable applicant comes forward....or they just bin the job because none do.

Let the fruit and veg rot in the fields,because all unskilled migrants are banned,or just have the growers raise prices for the extra bother of paying somebody shed loads extra to pick it,same goes for processed chickens and all the other foods produced in Deepest Nowhere that only immigrants can be bothered to go to and shack up 20 to a barrack.............now get Act 50 moving and legislate away.

Edited November 27, 2016 by chalga

[tzijlstra 11]

This is where using an argument that is completely implausible, but sells well, is used to stigmatise the discussion and along with it erodes our socially constructed understanding of discrimination - Zamo simply points out that discrimination along nationalist lines is beneficial because it helps put British unemployed in jobs.

 

Which is wonderful, if he explained how that would work in practice. Perhaps if he could do that in at least some detail than the British unemployed would rapidly back away from such a plan. But because the soundbite sells well, he doesn't have to explain it and it won't matter because the soundbite is what gets the vote, not the plan.

 

Look at Trump now running away from all the outrageous claims he made during his campaign. It is the exact same thing.

[chalga 10]

Just more predictions by the OBR who also predicted that if we voted for Brexit the UK would immediately plunge into a deep recession, companies (like Nissan and Jaguar) would no longer invest in the UK, unemployment would go through the roof and the stock market through the floor. It was almost impossible for them to be more wrong. In fact the only thing they got right was the value of the pound going down... which everyone predicted and isn't necessarily a bad thing!!

 

According to the latest analysis by the OBR, immigration will fall by 80,000 each year due to Brexit and the government will need to borrow an additional £6 billion per year to make up for the decline - source. That means the OBR calculate that the average immigrant makes a net positive contribute to the nation coffers of £75k every year!!! Unbelievable... I mean literally unbelievable! Complete clowns.

 

Calm yourself Cyclone... it's all nonsense.

 

 

 

 

If it's all nonsense,why did Hammond not call it nonsense instead of agreeing with it and acting on it by putting the figure on the cost of Brexit and saying that there is the need to borrow that money?

Why didn't he have the courage to act on the decision of the British people and the brexiteers in the government by calling it more 'so called expert tosh' that will never happen and bellowing the brave new world mantra we have got used to of the UK going it alone and prospering in the rest of the world new markets that will open up to the UK freed of EU shackles?

[Cyclone 10]

The Chancellor believes it, Zamo is just playing Ostrich and hoping that the results of his xenophobia (and all those like him) don't really come back to bite him in the ass. They will though, inflation is up, the economy is faltering.

[unbeliever 10]

really? informed? it was based on lies and you all suckered it up in your right wing hysteria, there wasnt even a plan....there still isnt.

i call it idiocy NOT informed

 

This kind of attitude toward people who disagree with you on an important constitutional matter is why you lost.

 

The mainstream "left" need to re-learn respect for the demos and for democratic principles.

[retep 68]

The Chancellor believes it, Zamo is just playing Ostrich and hoping that the results of his xenophobia (and all those like him) don't really come back to bite him in the ass. They will though, inflation is up, the economy is faltering.

 

 

Is that a blatant lie from a remoaner?

"Business investment boosts UK economic growth after Brexit vote"

https://www.ft.com/content/0038ee28-b2f7-11e6-a37c-f4a01f1b0fa1

[chalga 10]

The Chancellor believes it, Zamo is just playing Ostrich and hoping that the results of his xenophobia (and all those like him) don't really come back to bite him in the ass. They will though, inflation is up, the economy is faltering.

 

Well,this is it...........in the run up to the vote,this would be 'Project Fear',now all of a sudden,it's not Project Fear.

[unbeliever 10]

The Chancellor believes it, Zamo is just playing Ostrich and hoping that the results of his xenophobia (and all those like him) don't really come back to bite him in the ass. They will though, inflation is up, the economy is faltering.

 

You can't just make stuff up you know. It's bad form.

The predictions of prompt recession were wrong. I shan't say false, because they might have believed them at the time. But they were wrong.

As a result, those who made such predictions have lost credibility with moderates and rightly so.

[chalga 10]

You can't just make stuff up you know. It's bad form.

The predictions of prompt recession were wrong. I shan't say false, because they might have believed them at the time. But they were wrong.

As a result, those who made such predictions have lost credibility with moderates and rightly so.

 

Why haven't they lost credibility with Hammond then?

[Zamo 10]

And what rules would they be? you do realise hardcore benefit workers know every trick in the book. What you going to do? tell them they are working or there are no benefits? good luck with that.

 

No system is fool proof but all can be improved on. You will notice that murder is also illegal in this country but people still do it... should we stop bothering?

 

And that is the problem, or a perceived problem, that cannot be fixed. Our unemployment rate is below 5%, its lowest for around 30 years.

 

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployment-rate

 

Firstly, employment doesn't necessarily equate to a positive financial contribution and this is never the case when the employment is low paid. The reality is that most natives in the UK do not make a positive financial contribution (i.e. paying more than their equal share of government expenditure) and that shortfall has to be made up by others - they need to be subsidised and supported. All low/no paid immigrants are burden and I, like most people, are simply not interested in buying burden. Secondly, I really don't want to by burden when it is also accompanied by social impacts and extremism... I want immigration policy to minimise these things too AND create additional wealth instead of burden.

 

But leftists are not entrepreneurs that create wealth by selling stuff that people want to buy. When nobody wants to buy their crap they blame the customers - they are unintelligent, bigoted, racist, xenophobic, deviants - and seek to force them to buy. They ignore the protest and concerns (justified in their eyes because such people are deviants) and impose their will. But eventually people decide not to take this any more and they start voting with their vote. Voting for anyone other than the left. Moving further and further away from the left to not only get away from them but to find someone that will administer some payback by implementing policies that will upset the left.

 

People aren't being duped by the far right... we're running in their direction to get away from the left. But even when we tell you what is happening, the vanity and arrogance of the left means you stick on your blinkers and refuse to see it. You blame everyone except those responsible... yourselves.

 

Just maybe a plan that said how much it would cost us?

 

You still don't get it do you? It doesn't matter what it will cost. Most people decided not to vote for a system that surrenders sovereignty. The silver or lead threat made in response by pro-EU supporters is rejected. Whatever the cost is the cost. It is a matter of principle. And once we have determined a strategic course of action (based on matters of principle) we get on with the job of implementation... and that's what we are doing. Move on.

 

This is where using an argument that is completely implausible, but sells well, is used to stigmatise the discussion and along with it erodes our socially constructed understanding of discrimination - Zamo simply points out that discrimination along nationalist lines is beneficial because it helps put British unemployed in jobs.

 

Which is wonderful, if he explained how that would work in practice. Perhaps if he could do that in at least some detail than the British unemployed would rapidly back away from such a plan. But because the soundbite sells well, he doesn't have to explain it and it won't matter because the soundbite is what gets the vote, not the plan.

 

Look at Trump now running away from all the outrageous claims he made during his campaign. It is the exact same thing.

 

What you need to do is ask yourself why is it that people from different countries/cultures have a different work ethic? When you work that out then you have the answer. Can you work it out?

[unbeliever 10]

Why haven't they lost credibility with Hammond then?

 

Hammond accepts the rather pessimistic view of the Treasury/OBR. Myself I think growth next year will be similar to the pre-Brexit predictions of around 2% and the deficit will therefore be much lower than currently predicted.

But we'll have to see. By planning for the worst, and respecting the quasi-independence of the OBR, the Chancellor is behaving responsibly.

 

At some point the OBR will have to re-examine some of its core assumptions about the ingredients for growth.

"Stability" is not a universal good economically as it stifles innovation.

Edited November 27, 2016 by unbeliever

[chalga 10]

Hammond accepts the rather pessimistic view of the Treasury/OBR. Myself I think growth next year will be similar to the pre-Brexit predictions of around 2% and the deficit will therefore be much lower than currently predicted.

But we'll have to see. By planning for the worst, and respecting the quasi-independence of the OBR, the Chancellor is behaving responsibly.

 

At some point the OBR will have to re-examine some of its core assumptions about the ingredients for growth.

"Stability" is not a universal good economically as it stifles innovation.

 

I think the OBR are waiting to see what Brexit means........then they can re examine,as can everybody else.