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The Consequences of Brexit (part 2)

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Mrs May's visit to India has been mentioned on the news this morning. India is the World's 7th largest economy and Mrs May is meeting business leaders to pave the way for trade relations post BREXIT.

 

Bitter remain voters will find fault and moan about anything and don't really have the best interests of our country at heart.

 

The problem is I don`t actually feel as patriotic about this country as I did. What`s worrying, both for me and the country as a whole (I`m not the only one who feels like I do), is my feelings are not dissipating. If anything they`re going the other way. I was shocked and appalled by the headlines in the Daily Mail and the Express, and, as far I`m aware, nobody in the Government has criticised them. It`s a divided country, and getting more so all the time, and all for something that most people weren`t even that bothered about 18 months ago. I was looking at some research which said the EU was only an important issue for about 15% of the electorate..... Of course some will say that immigration was in third place, but more than half of immigration was/is from non EU countries, and anyway, Leave constantly maintain that the Referendum "wasn`t just about immigration".

 

By the way, from what I heard on R4s Today programme (though I was only half listening) the Indian Govt were saying a trade deal would depend on relaxing immigration restrictions. Interesting point, most immigration is from non EU countries anyway, funny how you never heard the Leave campaign say that in the campaign, isn`t it ?

 

---------- Post added 07-11-2016 at 13:44 ----------

 

When will the government obey the will of the offshore billionaire newspaper owners who got us into this mess with their decades of Euro myths?

 

Good point. Having read some of the biased inaccuracies in the Mail and other papers I`m getting to the point where I`m surprised that nearly 50% actually voted to remain. Oh sorry, I forgot, they don`t count do they.......

Edited by Justin Smith

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Listening to Vince Cable on the way back from work provided some interesting insight into this India deal - the EU has been trying to get a deal with India for quite some time. The UK was continuously blocking it (yes, really, the UK had influence in the EU!) but all of a sudden, since Brexit, the UK is chasing its own deal.

 

India made it clear from the word go that IT engineers from India should more easily be allowed to work here, which is why the UK blocked it, now the UK is begging with India to get it, guess what? The UK will all of a sudden budge on that point, or indeed they are just blowing bubbles.

 

Fun fact - the EU had no problem with India's request, I suspect as soon as article 50 is invoked the deal with India will be signed now that the UK is out of the picture. Funny that, seeing how the Brexit camp on here hail the India talks as an example of what Britain can do outside of the EU!

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If the EU want to be flooded with semi literate IT people with dodgy degrees then they are welcome to them!

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As a leave campaigner i have no problem with Indians coming here to work, on the whole they are just that workers they have a good work ethic unlike their neighbours who come here in droves.

India is also a massive growing commercial nation that we should get some very close ties with for both import and export. so yes i hope she does see sense and relax the visas for Indian workers who are bringing capital and needed skills to the UK.

 

Can you elaborate on what you mean by the bit I've just highlighted. Sounds like you've said something pretty ignorant, but maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick.

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If the EU want to be flooded with semi literate IT people with dodgy degrees then they are welcome to them!

 

They do, and they will be welcome. Your sort of remark shows how little you understand of the demands of the British economy. I worked with lots of IT companies and some of them are absolutely desperate to get more Indian staff in as they can't fill the vacancies they have. And don't be mistaken, these are 30K a year jobs to start with.

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They do, and they will be welcome. Your sort of remark shows how little you understand of the demands of the British economy. I worked with lots of IT companies and some of them are absolutely desperate to get more Indian staff in as they can't fill the vacancies they have. And don't be mistaken, these are 30K a year jobs to start with.

 

Well quite. Indians are often more literate than us natives and those of us who (partly in my case) code for a living are well aware of their abilities.

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Can you elaborate on what you mean by the bit I've just highlighted. Sounds like you've said something pretty ignorant, but maybe I've got the wrong end of the stick.

 

No you didn't, it is a prototypical veiled racist remark.

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No you didn't, it is a prototypical veiled racist remark.

 

er excuse me??? who are you calling racist?? wind ya neck in:loopy:

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er excuse me??? who are you calling racist?? wind ya neck in:loopy:

 

Go on then what did you mean.

 

Bet you can't defend it without sounding racist.

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They do, and they will be welcome. Your sort of remark shows how little you understand of the demands of the British economy. I worked with lots of IT companies and some of them are absolutely desperate to get more Indian staff in as they can't fill the vacancies they have. And don't be mistaken, these are 30K a year jobs to start with.

 

A big part of the problem is that after 2000 many big IT employers stopped taking on apprentices and graduates. They were bringing in ready-built workers from India instead. Tens of thousands of them, year on year.

 

Only relatively recently have the rules forced companies to pay these workers at levels at or close to what EU workers earn. Before then we had workers coming in and paid in kind for a lot of their 'wage'. I know how that worked. I managed 30 of them at one of my previous companies.

 

One of the big drivers for bring people across was knowledge share so that work could be taken back to India. I've seen lots of that happen and whole departments close. I's not just IT though. Lots of back office functions and customer contact centres are fair game.

 

Maybe a million quality jobs must have been lost over the past 15 years because of these processes. And the sad thing is this was controllable.

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A big part of the problem is that after 2000 many big IT employers stopped taking on apprentices and graduates. They were bringing in ready-built workers from India instead. Tens of thousands of them, year on year.

 

Only relatively recently have the rules forced companies to pay these workers at levels at or close to what EU workers earn. Before then we had workers coming in and paid in kind for a lot of their 'wage'. I know how that worked. I managed 30 of them at one of my previous companies.

 

One of the big drivers for bring people across was knowledge share so that work could be taken back to India. I've seen lots of that happen and whole departments close. I's not just IT though. Lots of back office functions and customer contact centres are fair game.

 

Maybe a million quality jobs must have been lost over the past 15 years because of these processes. And the sad thing is this was controllable.

 

 

Jobs lost or just being done elsewhere?

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A big part of the problem is that after 2000 many big IT employers stopped taking on apprentices and graduates. They were bringing in ready-built workers from India instead. Tens of thousands of them, year on year.

 

Only relatively recently have the rules forced companies to pay these workers at levels at or close to what EU workers earn. Before then we had workers coming in and paid in kind for a lot of their 'wage'. I know how that worked. I managed 30 of them at one of my previous companies.

 

One of the big drivers for bring people across was knowledge share so that work could be taken back to India. I've seen lots of that happen and whole departments close. I's not just IT though. Lots of back office functions and customer contact centres are fair game.

 

Maybe a million quality jobs must have been lost over the past 15 years because of these processes. And the sad thing is this was controllable.

 

I've come across the underbelly of this phenomena as well, but found it rare. Most of the IT companies I dealt with were heavily investing into R&D and were searching high and low for (British) talent but couldn't find it. Most guys I know that are EU trained (including UK) as developers/sysadmins etc. were snapped up by the big boys and banks, draining the level 'below' of talent.

 

Simple fact is that there was no way the UK was ever going to train the amount of IT engineers it needed to cover demand in the time it was necessary to do so. I doubt your figure of 1 million jobs lost as well, I'd argue that in the past 15 years a million jobs in IT were created compared to the previous level. Certainly if you include Ireland (Dublin is booming). I don't know of any well-skilled IT engineer without a job by choice. I do know several who are by choice - they've made enough and have ventured into different directions.

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