The Consequences of Brexit (part 2)

[tzijlstra 11]

Point of Order.

Pensions are not benefits.

They are bought and paid for.

Don't fall into the divide and conquer trap this government is laying out.

 

No they are not, let's be clear about this as it is one of those issues people keep getting wrong. The current pension-system is not paid for, it is running an enormous deficit. The reason the economy needs to keep growing is to ensure that deficit does not become a 'cut all pensions in half to endure'. People are living longer than anticipated, pensions and 65+ benefits have been ring fenced for ages now (biggest voter group) and the population is slowly going up in average age. Britain was late to respond in raising pension ages and that is going to haunt this country for some time.

 

All part of Davis' reasoning on why 'vacancies' have to be filled by the way.

 

did these food producers tell you what they paid their workers and how many were topped up with benefits? look around you tim here in sheffield ill give you one example of how this is working my mate owns a car wash place he has 11 employees working for him all on part time hours topped up with benefits are you telling me hes the only one doing it in the country

 

In our organisation we employ cleaners for tuppence an hour through an agency for a few hours a day, they all have kids and the benefits coming along with it. I don't blame the cleaners, I blame the lack of protection afforded to them by our legal system. In fact, I praise the cleaners for having the tenacity to go out and work against the odds. More people should, then fewer immigrants would be needed, don't you think?

 

(PS the workers are all white British).

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/526395/foodpocketbook-2015update-26may16.pdf

 

3.9m people employed in the Agri-food sector in 2015 - 14% of UK employment

 

Apologies, I forgot to add 'immigrant' to workers.

 

Don't worry too much about all these nurses and doctors threatening to leave. We've had people who spend all day on here warning us they're going, but they seem to have come to their senses and surprise, they're still here.

 

I've still not made up my mind gomgeg, as I am sure l00b hasn't either, there is nothing certain about what Brexit we are getting you see? Also, there is still good money to be earned here still, so no need to return.

 

PS - the NHS is facing huge employment issues and isn't able to fill vacancies fast enough. Employment rate for newly graduated nurses in the UK is pretty much 100% across the board.

[Jacktari 10]

No they are not, let's be clear about this as it is one of those issues people keep getting wrong. The current pension-system is not paid for, it is running an enormous deficit. The reason the economy needs to keep growing is to ensure that deficit does not become a 'cut all pensions in half to endure'. People are living longer than anticipated, pensions and 65+ benefits have been ring fenced for ages now (biggest voter group) and the population is slowly going up in average age. Britain was late to respond in raising pension ages and that is going to haunt this country for some time.

 

All part of Davis' reasoning on why 'vacancies' have to be filled by the way.

 

 

 

In our organisation we employ cleaners for tuppence an hour through an agency for a few hours a day, they all have kids and the benefits coming along with it. I don't blame the cleaners, I blame the lack of protection afforded to them by our legal system. In fact, I praise the cleaners for having the tenacity to go out and work against the odds. More people should, then fewer immigrants would be needed, don't you think?

 

(PS the workers are all white British).

 

 

 

Apologies, I forgot to add 'immigrant' to workers.

 

 

 

I've still not made up my mind gomgeg, as I am sure l00b hasn't either, there is nothing certain about what Brexit we are getting you see? Also, there is still good money to be earned here still, so no need to return.

 

PS - the NHS is facing huge employment issues and isn't able to fill vacancies fast enough. Employment rate for newly graduated nurses in the UK is pretty much 100% across the board.

 

Why not just increase taxation in order to pay for all these things?

It is something I have advocated all my working life.

Even as low as a fiver a week extra from people earning above a certain amount would be a massive boost, and would not be missed by the individual tax payer.

[apelike 10]

Aren't many foreign health service experts (AKA Doctors) leaving or planning to leave the UK.

It's okay though, the brexiters won't want experts treating them, so that should leave enough experts in the NHS to continue to treat the remain voters.

 

Considering the vast majority of foreign health experts (AKA Doctors) and other foreign staff (AKA Nurses) that are employed in the NHS are from non EU countries, I find it hard to believe that it will make much of a difference to services.

 

---------- Post added 23-02-2017 at 20:12 ----------

 

I`ve got a question for all the Brexiteers on here, after all you want us all to unite and go forward together....

When we leave the EU I can think of at least 3 or 4 ways*, mainly to do with travel, in which I`ll directly and objectively lose out. Can the Brexiteers on here come up with some objective ways in which I`ll directly gain something to compensate ?

 

Why do you feel you need to be compensated when you have gained by working or being here and will lose nothing?

 

* No EHIC (European health insurance).

Reintroduction of customs limits on what you can bring in from the continent.

No right of abode in the EU and use of the (quicker) EU citizens passport control channels.

Devalued pound making imports, and travel abroad, much more expensive.

 

So far what you have suggested has not happened and the only one that has is in bold which is to be expected.

 

---------- Post added 23-02-2017 at 20:16 ----------

 

 

* As far as I`m aware the Govt has promised to compensate anyone who is worse off under Brexit (e.g. the farmers and Nissan). Is this right ?

 

You should read more news, no its not right.

[biotechpete 10]

Considering the vast majority of foreign health experts (AKA Doctors) and other foreign staff (AKA Nurses) that are employed in the NHS are from non EU countries, I find it hard to believe that it will make much of a difference to services.

 

---------- Post added 23-02-2017 at 20:12 ----------

 

 

Why do you feel you need to be compensated when you have gained by working or being here and will lose nothing?

 

 

 

So far what you have suggested has not happened and the only one that has is in bold which is to be expected.

 

I'd like to see the figures on that. I work with 3 EU doctors, and know maybe 10. I know one non-EU doctor.

 

They won't all leave overnight, but I know 3 EU dentists that have gone in the last 6 months. Emigration was up by 26000 in the year to September, only a couple of months after the referendum. The ONS estimated that EU8 emigration was up significantly from 12000 to 39000.

 

Like the inflation figures we'll start to actually get the data in the next few months.

Edited February 23, 2017 by biotechpete

[apelike 10]

I'd like to see the figures on that. I work with 3 EU doctors, and know maybe 10. I know one non-EU doctor.

 

They won't all leave overnight, but I know 3 EU dentists that have gone in the last 6 months. Emigration was up by 26000 in the year to September, only a couple of months after the referendum. The ONS estimated that EU8 emigration was up significantly from 12000 to 39000.

 

Hope this helps, and don't be put of by the heading "medical transplants" as its a survey from across the board and only a few years old.

 

http://static.guim.co.uk/ni/1390829680973/NHS_staff_graphic.pdf

[L00b 441]

I've still not made up my mind gomgeg, as I am sure l00b hasn't either, there is nothing certain about what Brexit we are getting you see? Also, there is still good money to be earned here still, so no need to return.

There is good money to be earned still, but that is getting increasingly balanced out by the risks to maintaining quality of life out of the <actual> Brexit (as eventually negotiated). Edited February 23, 2017 by L00b

[tzijlstra 11]

Why not just increase taxation in order to pay for all these things?

It is something I have advocated all my working life.

Even as low as a fiver a week extra from people earning above a certain amount would be a massive boost, and would not be missed by the individual tax payer.

 

Just paying for the repair of school buildings (as reported recently by the NOA) would cost almost £5 a week per working Brit. Also, raising taxes won't stop the need to fill vacancies.

 

bah, what's the point.

 

 

Thumbs up for the med, if you need a highly skilled information and people manager give me a call. Not for Marseille or Monaco though, somewhere between Montpellier and Perpignan sounds good to me

 

In all seriousness though - the one thing keeping us here at the moment is that in our field (me and the mrs.) the UK is still the best paying country in the EU by quite some stretch. When that changes our position will change as well.

[L00b 441]

Hahahaha! Have 50 kudos culture points from me, young Sir

[Jacktari 10]

Just paying for the repair of school buildings (as reported recently by the NOA) would cost almost £5 a week per working Brit. Also, raising taxes won't stop the need to fill vacancies.

.

 

We still need our people from the EU, that goes without saying. (using the term 'immigrants' for fellow citizens is part of the brainwashing)

 

In terms of tax, raise the rate for over 40 grand to 60%.

Below that keep it at 20% or whatever it is these days.

 

It is not much to ask for above average earners to pay their way for a change is it?

[L00b 441]

We still need our people from the EU, that goes without saying. (using the term 'immigrants' for fellow citizens is part of the brainwashing)

 

In terms of tax, raise the rate for over 40 grand to 60%.

Below that keep it at 20% or whatever it is these days.

 

It is not much to ask for above average earners to pay their way for a change is it?

Are you having a laugh?

 

As a high rate taxpayer since I came back to this country 9 years ago, and having been paying every last penny of income tax and NI on the dot since that time [throughout the worst of crisis and recession, month-in month-out and without any funny accounting business whatsoever, by-the-books PAYE as a matter of principle], I find that remark highly offensive.

 

I've been paying my way alright, and that of a few in that time I bet.

 

As has every last taxpayer, high rate and not, since that time and before.

 

If you want to improve tax takings, you could do worse than curbing immoral practices like (e.g.) business owners giving their wives, girlfriends and kids low-paid (i.e. below income tax threshold) 'never-in-the-office' jobs for reducing their own level of taxable income and creating pension liabilities for future taxpayers out of thin air. There's tons more where that one came from.

 

And/or, at a grander scale, go back to the likes of Vodafone about their forgiven outstanding tax liabilities numbering into the £-billions.

Edited February 23, 2017 by L00b

[Robin-H 11]

We still need our people from the EU, that goes without saying. (using the term 'immigrants' for fellow citizens is part of the brainwashing)

 

In terms of tax, raise the rate for over 40 grand to 60%.

Below that keep it at 20% or whatever it is these days.

 

It is not much to ask for above average earners to pay their way for a change is it?

 

Have you heard of the Laffer Curve. If not I suggest you look into it, as it (and the surrounding literature) would explain why tax rates of 60% would be counter intuitive.

 

As an example, when George Osbourne reduced the top rate of income tax from 50p to 45p the amount of tax revenue raised from the highest earners actually increased. The year after the rate was dropped an additional £8 billion in tax was raised.

 

This was partially due to people 'deferring' income from one year to the next in order to take advantage of the lower rate, however amount of tax raised from those on high incomes has stayed higher than before, and so that alone cannot explain away the increase.

[ez8004 10]

We still need our people from the EU, that goes without saying. (using the term 'immigrants' for fellow citizens is part of the brainwashing)

 

In terms of tax, raise the rate for over 40 grand to 60%.

Below that keep it at 20% or whatever it is these days.

 

It is not much to ask for above average earners to pay their way for a change is it?

 

You sound like a person who has failed in life with a pathetic career. Being in the 40% income tax bracket I pay plenty of tax. We more than pay our dues. What benefits do we have as 40% tax earners that others do not get? Absolutely nothing, if anything we have far fewer benefit entitlements. I try to offset the tax I pay by buying childcare vouchers at £243 a month which is taken from my gross pay and buy £150 of company shares which is taken before income tax but that is it. So I am only making a tax saving on £393 a month that is hardly makes a dent in my tax liabilities.