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The Consequences of Brexit (part 2)

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That isn't what I asked, I asked if you could give an example of UK citizens being ignored by the EU.

 

One of many but probably the most obvious.

 

Free movement of people.

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One of many but probably the most obvious.

 

Free movement of people.

 

Free movement of people was part of the original Treaty of Rome. This was agreed to by the people of the UK in 1975 when they voted to remain in the then EEC. So the EU could hardly be ignoring the people of the UK when the people of the UK voted for it.

 

---------- Post added 23-10-2016 at 13:19 ----------

 

At each general election, parliament seeks a new mandate from the people which must include the option to overturn all policy.

 

Do you know how long it would take any government to overturn all policy? Well the answer is at lot longer than the 5 years of any government.

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Free movement of people was part of the original Treaty of Rome. This was agreed to by the people of the UK in 1975 when they voted to remain in the then EEC. So the EU could hardly be ignoring the people of the UK when the people of the UK voted for it.

 

---------- Post added 23-10-2016 at 13:19 ----------

 

 

Do you know how long it would take any government to overturn all policy? Well the answer is at lot longer than the 5 years of any government.

 

It was agreed by some of the British people, the rest were ignored. Now its time to ignore the wished of those people that voted remain.

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Sorry missed this before:

One UK government had the opportunity to block it and didnt'. Later governments are then bound by that. This is not acceptable.

At each general election, parliament seeks a new mandate from the people which must include the option to overturn all policy. If such policy it locked by EU membership, this is lost.

As I say. Volatile, but accountable.

 

that may be nice in a theoretical sense but the reality of life is that some decisions in one parliament which will have an effect long into the future.

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that may be nice in a theoretical sense but the reality of life is that some decisions in one parliament which will have an effect long into the future.

 

An effect to be certain. But that's quite different from locking in a policy.

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An effect to be certain. But that's quite different from locking in a policy.

 

not really, all governments are constantly criticised for being too short term and not focusing on longer term solutions to our problems.

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Free movement of people was part of the original Treaty of Rome. This was agreed to by the people of the UK in 1975 when they voted to remain in the then EEC. So the EU could hardly be ignoring the people of the UK when the people of the UK voted for it.

 

---------- Post added 23-10-2016 at 13:19 ----------

 

 

Do you know how long it would take any government to overturn all policy? Well the answer is at lot longer than the 5 years of any government.

 

your right but that was when there were 9 members 6 before the we signed the Treaty of Rome, all of similar economic status.

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not really, all governments are constantly criticised for being too short term and not focusing on longer term solutions to our problems.

 

Sure. But a long term decision can be reversible. Just most of them probably shouldn't be. Doesn't make it wise or righteous to remove the people from long-term decision making.

 

There's a pragmatic advantage in taking long term decision making out of the hands of politics and handing it over to a democracy. But there's a massive down-side in removing or at least drastically reducing democratic accountability.

You might think it a good trade. I do not.

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Aren't Canada negotiating access to the Single Market?

 

 

... without free movement?

 

No, they are negotiating a free trade agreement. Quite different.

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No, they are negotiating a free trade agreement. Quite different.

 

What's the difference? I genuinely don't know.

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What's the difference? I genuinely don't know.

 

This is one of the key-issues of the Brexit debate, the Remain side never managed to clarify this either. A single market is where regulations governing product standards are equal to all those that trade within it. Free trade just means dropping trade-barriers and in the case of CETA/TTIP agreeing on some common laws to smooth trade beyond trade barriers.

 

The UK has a single market, you, as a Sheffielder, are free to work in Scotland, sell your wares in Scotland and implement British law in Scotland - single market. If the Scots stopped you working in Scotland and implementing British law in Scotland you would be going towards a free trade agreement instead.

 

It is pretty complex, after all, Scotland in the devolution has already gained some lawmaking capabilities related to when certain wares are allowed to be sold and when not, but in essence the UK has a single market. Currently that single market extends all over Europe. Post-Brexit it won't as things stand now, it will just be a free trade agreement.

 

What does that mean? British goods won't be considered equal to EU goods - ie. a British IT service provider can be thrown out of an EU bid on the grounds that the service provider is not in the EU. British workers won't be able to travel to Europe without the right paper work, nor will British goods. Now the first bit sounds Hosannah to many Brexiteers, but the second bit is hugely underestimated - in essence it means that Exporters to the EU *the majority of UK export goes to the EU* still have to implement EU law to be able to sell on European markets, yet get no say whatsoever on what that EU law is.

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This is one of the key-issues of the Brexit debate, the Remain side never managed to clarify this either. A single market is where regulations governing product standards are equal to all those that trade within it. Free trade just means dropping trade-barriers and in the case of CETA/TTIP agreeing on some common laws to smooth trade beyond trade barriers.

 

The UK has a single market, you, as a Sheffielder, are free to work in Scotland, sell your wares in Scotland and implement British law in Scotland - single market. If the Scots stopped you working in Scotland and implementing British law in Scotland you would be going towards a free trade agreement instead.

 

It is pretty complex, after all, Scotland in the devolution has already gained some lawmaking capabilities related to when certain wares are allowed to be sold and when not, but in essence the UK has a single market. Currently that single market extends all over Europe. Post-Brexit it won't as things stand now, it will just be a free trade agreement.

 

What does that mean? British goods won't be considered equal to EU goods - ie. a British IT service provider can be thrown out of an EU bid on the grounds that the service provider is not in the EU. British workers won't be able to travel to Europe without the right paper work, nor will British goods. Now the first bit sounds Hosannah to many Brexiteers, but the second bit is hugely underestimated - in essence it means that Exporters to the EU *the majority of UK export goes to the EU* still have to implement EU law to be able to sell on European markets, yet get no say whatsoever on what that EU law is.

 

 

That's a pretty good summary. Except that the majority of UK export does not, as I understand it, go to the EU and hasn't for a few years now.

 

The "single market" is would probably be better called the EU internal market.

In principle UK businesses will now have second class status in the EU internal market, it's a matter of a great deal of conjecture and debate as to what difference that will make.

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