The Consequences of Brexit (part 2)

[L00b 441]

To repeal all EU legislation already incorporated into UK law except such as the UK wishes to retain.

Which, last time Davis piped up about it, was "none" and "all" respectively, for the sake of trade continuity with the EU under a WTO-MFN regime.

No. It's a Crown Dependency but not part of the UK.

Its status is more or less the same as the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, Falklands, etc.

(One exception: EU elections for UK MEs currently also give voting rights to Gibraltarians, lumped together with SW England!)

"No?"

 

Gibraltar has its own currency?

 

It will not have a land border with the EU after Brexit?

[Jacktari 10]

The Lords have rolled over and passed the first stage of the suicide bill I see.

 

What has happened to our great country, that we run away like this?

[apelike 10]

The Lords have rolled over and passed the first stage of the suicide bill I see.

 

What has happened to our great country, that we run away like this?

 

You can run away if you want but I shall be staying.

[Cyclone 10]

So, looking more and more likely that the Scottish will be having another referendum.

I think a few hundred pages back (or maybe in the previous thread) unbeliever was stating very clearly that brexit was not the end of the union because we simply wouldn't allow the Scottish to have another vote.

 

---------- Post added 14-03-2017 at 07:34 ----------

 

Which, last time Davis piped up about it, was "none" and "all" respectively, for the sake of trade continuity with the EU under a WTO-MFN regime.

"No?"

 

Gibraltar has its own currency?

 

It will not have a land border with the EU after Brexit?

 

To be fair, after that "land border" you still then have to fly to the UK.

 

Which is quite different to a much larger and entirely porous Irish/N Irish land border, where you can then take 1 of many ferries to the mainland afterwards.

[L00b 441]

To be fair, after that "land border" you still then have to fly to the UK.

The point isn't how you get to or from there. The point is cross-border commuters and fret. And it pertains to Gib' just as much as to NI.

Which is quite different to a much larger and entirely porous Irish/N Irish land border, where you can then take 1 of many ferries to the mainland afterwards.

I think you might want to spend 5 minutes reflecting on the political ramifications of that IE/NI land border, all porous that it may be or not. Preferably with bearing SF's recent poll results in mind.

 

It's not being discussed much on here or in the media. I can tell you that it's the top discussion topic in Brexit threads on all Irish forums which I frequent, and has been for a long time.

 

If a border gets reinstated between IE and NI, we'll be discussing phone-code alerts and body bags in Meadowhall's basement again. If Scotland votes out, we'll be celebrating Irish unification a few years afterwards at the most.

[Justin Smith 10]

The Catalan case for independence seems to me to have a much sounder basis than the Scottish case.

 

It has a much stronger economy (with a stronger tourist industry and also a stronger manufacturing base). It is already using the euro, so we know what currency it would use. It also has its own language, culture and, of course, a world class football team. Also, it has a stronger case based on historical grievances than does Scotland (Catalonia was on the Republic side during the civil war and suffered very badly). Also, Madrid is still refusing to allow a referendum, which is bound to fuel the sense of grievance in the country.

 

No we cant as they don't have the higher percentage to hold one as the higher percentage is for Scotland to stay part of the UK. Sturgeon by asking for a section 30 will also be going back on her promise of "a once in generation" vote, not good for her future.

Quote from the BBC:

"Her official spokesman responded to Ms Sturgeon's announcement by saying that the evidence "clearly showed a majority of people in Scotland do not want a second independence referendum".

Its Sturgeon that wants it in retribution for being ignored on the Brexit appeal. I also doubt May will allow one until after we have left.

 

Nigel and Apelike, hello ! Can we have your assurance that if and when the EU refuse to give us a free trade deal (as the Brexit lot said they would during the campaign, their other big lie) you will not say "that`s illogical, we could not have forecast that when we said what we did" ?

 

---------- Post added 14-03-2017 at 09:32 ----------

 

Originally Posted by Justin Smith :

One thing we can agree on, I assume. The Scottish have a higher percentage in favour of an Independence referendum than the UK ever had for an EU referendum, yet we still had one

 

Do you have data?

I have this:

http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/how-would-you-vote-in-the-in-a-scottish-independence-referendum-if-held-now-ask#line

It shows "no" leading "yes" in all but one poll in the last 6 months and in the latest poll and the only "yes" lead is 1% which is well within the margin of error.

 

It's certainly possible that "yes" would win, but unlikely.

 

That`s not what I meant. Therasa May et al are saying there`s no great will in Scotland for a referendum. I simply pointed out that if it`s more than about 15% it`s probably higher than the will for an EU referendum was in the UK (as you know 85% of UK voters didn`t even put Europe in their top three of concerns before the last GE), yet we still had a referendum here.....

= Hypocrisy

 

---------- Post added 14-03-2017 at 09:38 ----------

 

I have now replied on the "Another vote t'other side of the Border" thread as Unbeliever, rightly so, would rather this thread be about Brexit.

 

They`re inextricably linked.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Justin Smith

[unbeliever 10]

So, looking more and more likely that the Scottish will be having another referendum.

I think a few hundred pages back (or maybe in the previous thread) unbeliever was stating very clearly that brexit was not the end of the union because we simply wouldn't allow the Scottish to have another vote.

 

I don't think we will allow another vote. I also think Scotland will vote against independence. As a matter of principle I think we probably should allow the vote, but that doesn't mean we will.

[L00b 441]

I don't think we will allow another vote. I also think Scotland will vote against independence. As a matter of principle I think we probably should allow the vote, but that doesn't mean we will.

The political union would die with a refusal, which would quasi-guarantee Scotland's exit, just as much as no Tory MP ever being elected in Scotland again in our lifetime.

 

I'd wager that the SNP actually wants that refusal more than it does a 2nd referendum, and May will be making the same calculation.

 

Sturgeon checked May, but hasn't quite check-mated her yet. May's got 2 moves left.

Edited March 14, 2017 by L00b

[unbeliever 10]

The political union would die with a refusal, which would quasi-guarantee Scotland's exit. I'd wager that the SNP actually wants that refusal more than it does a 2nd referendum, and May will be making the same calculation.

 

I'm unconvinced. The recent vote is still fresh in peoples' memories, all the polls indicate that there's no appetite for a second vote, and the silent majority seem far less concerned about Brexit than the politicians.

[L00b 441]

I'm unconvinced. The recent vote is still fresh in peoples' memories, all the polls indicate that there's no appetite for a second vote, and the silent majority seem far less concerned about Brexit than the politicians.

Well, talking about polls, makes me wonder how and why the SNP got such a majority vote in 2016

 

May's refusal will be seen by all Scots as exactly what it is: the limit of Scotland's autonomy from, and the value of Scotland to, Westminster. It will reduce the relevance of the Scottish Parliament to mere symbolism - one of impotence, at that.

 

But I'm not trying to convince you: as usual, I'm opining, and happy to let events just unfold and vindicate me in due course. So far, so good

 

I told you this car crash was going to be entertaining. WhoTF could be bothered about GoT series 7 in this day and age?

Edited March 14, 2017 by L00b

[unbeliever 10]

Well, talking about polls, makes me wonder how and why the SNP got such a majority vote in 2016

 

They're reasonably competent and they're not associated with Jeremy Corbyn.

[L00b 441]

They're reasonably competent and they're not associated with Jeremy Corbyn.

Is that like, or unlike, the Tories?

 

(irrespective, the SNP still got a comfortable majority in May 2016: the point stands I'm afraid )