Gardeners Rest - Neepsend

[Cyclone 10]

I asked on the facebook page if the accounts for the last few years were available, but I got no reply.

[*_ash_* 88]

I asked on the facebook page if the accounts for the last few years were available, but I got no reply.

 

I also wondered, what would happen if the pub couldn't sustain itself, would the learning centre continue, and if so how is/would that be financed?

 

This bit was the closest to these questions:

 

The principal risk to the Gardeners

Rest Community Society investor is

that the Gardeners Rest fails to be

successful as a going concern. We

are under no illusion as to the

challenges and the inherent risks

involved.

The mitigation of this risk lies in the

fact that the business plan is built on

diversifying the business into a

multifunctional community hub which

will include renting out rooms as

accommodation and for events and

activities.

 

The top bold, does 'Gardeners Rest' in this bold mean either as a pub, or a community hub.

 

Second bold, does this mean if the pub in the future fails, it would resort to this diversification only (or sell up)?

[Xabi 10]

I also wondered, what would happen if the pub couldn't sustain itself, would the learning centre continue, and if so how is/would that be financed?

 

This bit was the closest to these questions:

 

 

 

The top bold, does 'Gardeners Rest' in this bold mean either as a pub, or a community hub.

 

Second bold, does this mean if the pub in the future fails, it would resort to this diversification only (or sell up)?

 

I think that's just covering their backs. Looking at the business plan, the Gardeners needs a lot of renovation to the upstairs areas. The pub already has a lot of community groups that use it, I think they just want to be able to expand on that. Thats what they mean by community hub.

[Narden Dee 10]

Looks interesting.

 

When I drop off there or pass the [river] bridge on Rutland Road, I wonder how long until that side of the bridge is more flats. Could be very successful in the future, when the space around Kelham Island is used up. Especially being on the river, which is becoming a popular choice to live.

 

(at the very least I hope it doesn't close down, even though I've never been in)

 

i have heard that the old stones brewery across the road is to be redeveloped into flats so it may make some sense

[*_ash_* 88]

I think that's just covering their backs. Looking at the business plan, the Gardeners needs a lot of renovation to the upstairs areas. The pub already has a lot of community groups that use it, I think they just want to be able to expand on that. Thats what they mean by community hub.

 

Thanks

 

 

.

 

---------- Post added 17-10-2016 at 23:22 ----------

 

i have heard that the old stones brewery across the road is to be redeveloped into flats so it may make some sense

 

Needs so much work though. I can't see that happening in the next year, maybe more depending on the brexit thing, and what people are buying.

 

I was sat at the lights the other day, and thought how much that would cost to demolish and rebuild, OR renovate. I concluded that either option would be a lot! and there are probably still a few dozen better / far-cheaper shorter term options around there before they [builders] move over the bridge.

Edited October 17, 2016 by *_ash_*

[Xabi 10]

Thanks

 

 

.

 

---------- Post added 17-10-2016 at 23:22 ----------

 

 

Needs so much work though. I can't see that happening in the next year, maybe more depending on the brexit thing, and what people are buying.

 

I was sat at the lights the other day, and thought how much that would cost to demolish and rebuild, OR renovate. I concluded that either option would be a lot! and there are probably still a few dozen better / far-cheaper shorter term options around there before they [builders] move over the bridge.

 

Had a demolition order on it for a year so I don't know what the hold up is!

 

http://www.sheffieldtelegraph.co.uk/news/former-sheffield-brewery-to-bite-the-dust-in-demolition-1-7416276

[lizmachin 10]

http://www.thestar.co.uk/news/gardeners-rest-regulars-launch-100-000-appeal-to-buy-their-pub-1-8177254

Sheffield pub regulars are trying to raise at least £100,000 to buy their local.

 

"Eddy Munnelly and Pat Wilson, landlord and landlady of the Gardeners Rest in Neepsend, plan to pull their last pints in the near future.

 

The aim is to raise at least £100,000 by November 28. People can contribute as little as £100 or as much as £20,000 – but everyone who pays in gets the same voting rights in the new Gardeners Rest Community Society."

 

I've invested in this. Sounds like a great idea to save some of Sheffield's great local pubs! They've done a great video to advertise the campaign.

 

http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/gardenersrest/

 

 

I will certainly have a dabble. It is one of my locals at the moment.

I think a similar idea applies to The Drone Valley Brewery. The tax benefits can be considerable.

[Nagel 10]

This is like playing Dragons Den for real

 

I've read the documents now and there's a lot of questions not answered. Is there a full share prospectus available?

 

I'd like to know exactly what the shares are and how they work. I understand that if the venture fails then the shares become worthless. That's the same with any shares, but what happens if the venture is hugely successful? What happens to the profits?

[Xabi 10]

This is like playing Dragons Den for real

 

I've read the documents now and there's a lot of questions not answered. Is there a full share prospectus available?

 

I'd like to know exactly what the shares are and how they work. I understand that if the venture fails then the shares become worthless. That's the same with any shares, but what happens if the venture is hugely successful? What happens to the profits?

 

Community Shares are a relatively new concept so ins and outs aren't as well known. This is a good website. http://communityshares.org.uk/

 

In a Community Benefit Share all the profits have to go to benefitting the society, which will be decided by the shareholders.

 

This particular page is useful on profits.

 

http://communityshares.org.uk/resources/handbook/use-profit-community-benefit-societies

[Cyclone 10]

This is like playing Dragons Den for real

 

I've read the documents now and there's a lot of questions not answered. Is there a full share prospectus available?

 

I'd like to know exactly what the shares are and how they work. I understand that if the venture fails then the shares become worthless. That's the same with any shares, but what happens if the venture is hugely successful? What happens to the profits?

 

That's never defined with shares. You don't 'automatically' get a share in the form of dividends. You do (normally as a major shareholder) have influence on the board and the CEO to make your wishes known (and to appoint them). But profit can be used to expand the business, as reinvestment, retained as cash or distributed as dividend to shareholders.

The share value changes in line with how well the business is doing of course, so if it's sitting on a huge pile of cash, the share value will reflect this.

Of course community shares are not listed and so the value is much harder to determine and they might be much more difficult to sell.

 

---------- Post added 18-10-2016 at 07:38 ----------

 

Reading some of that link that Xabi provided

 

Paying interest on share capital is an operating expense, not a profit distribution. However, a community benefit society can increase its profits by reducing the amount it spends on share interest. So, as a matter of good practice a community benefit society should make recommendations regarding share interest rates, and the use of profits, to members at an annual general meeting, following the presentation of the annual report and accounts. These accounts should state the net profits of the society, and propose what proportion of this profit should be reinvested in the society, used for the benefit of the community, or donated to other organisations with similar community objects.

 

It seems like whilst you might get an interest payment, you definitely won't get dividends. It doesn't really look like this is an investment to be honest, unless you particularly want to keep the venue open. I've only been there once, so that's not for me.

[Agamemnon 10]

Hi,

Thanks for all the interest. The best place to answer your questions would be in the pub tonight (Tuesday 18th at 8 pm) if you can make it; always easier to talk things through in person. But in a nutshell, if you buy shares, you become a member of the community group. Any discussion of profits, share opts outs, can be agreed by common vote in that group. So by way of example, if the business was failing, I might propose that we sell to a property developer and that any profits from the sale go to other charities, agreed upon by common vote. Everyone could vote on my proposal and either agree with me or vote me down. But ultimately, as members of the community association, we decide collectively what the rules are.

 

You’re right when you say this isn’t a commercial investment, it’s a community one.

 

If you could make it tonight, it would be great to see you all and talk through the proposal.

[lizmachin 10]

Hi,

Thanks for all the interest. The best place to answer your questions would be in the pub tonight (Tuesday 18th at 8 pm) if you can make it; always easier to talk things through in person. But in a nutshell, if you buy shares, you become a member of the community group. Any discussion of profits, share opts outs, can be agreed by common vote in that group. So by way of example, if the business was failing, I might propose that we sell to a property developer and that any profits from the sale go to other charities, agreed upon by common vote. Everyone could vote on my proposal and either agree with me or vote me down. But ultimately, as members of the community association, we decide collectively what the rules are.

 

You’re right when you say this isn’t a commercial investment, it’s a community one.

 

If you could make it tonight, it would be great to see you all and talk through the proposal.

 

You have rather put me off now. It does look as though there are a number of investors all of whom have invested low hundreds of pounds in the venture.

It does seem that investing say £10-20K would leave you with just one vote on such matters and a few folks with £200 each invested could pull the rug from under your feet and sell the pub to a property developer anyhow, with nothing you could do about it.