Ched Evans has been cleared..

[staninoodle 173]

Accepting the judgement of the court, there are two totally different possibilities in cases of rape and murder. They are very different crimes.

 

In the case of a murder we know that the murder took place, so if the defendant is found not guilty then someone else must have done it.

 

It's different with rape because there are two possibilities with a not guilty verdict. Either the crime didn't happen and the allegation is false, or someone else did it.

 

If your up for murder and its unproved then its the lesser charge of manslaughter either way its beak time

 

so whats the rape equivalent? at a guess its common assault which is barely worth persuing given the tariff and the equital of rape makes it harder to prove in the jurys mind.

 

Evans is no saint here and certainly no role model for sport loving kids.

[mafya 240]

If your up for murder and its unproved then its the lesser charge of manslaughter either way its beak time

 

so whats the rape equivalent? at a guess its common assault which is barely worth persuing given the tariff and the equital of rape makes it harder to prove in the jurys mind.

 

Evans is no saint here and certainly no role model for sport loving kids.

 

He either raped her or he didn't was what needed to be decided by the jury.

The not guilty verdict means he didn't and no alternative charge of sexual assault was considered so he is innocent of the crime..

Not guilty means innocent....

[pretty_big 10]

I'm not sure if we've already had a Ched Evans thread removed but it's raised a lot of issues to do with consent. What's the laws on a Very drunk person consenting and then backtracking the next day? What's the law on 2 very drunk people consenting and one backtracking the next day? What's the law on 1 very drunk person that can't remember consenting but various character references support that this person regularly drinks and has casual sex? So many questions and grey areas to discuss.

[Detetcive 10]

...Evans is no saint here and certainly no role model for sport loving kids.

 

Precisely - an arrogant unpleasant person who thinks his wealth means he can use and abuse women when he feels like it.

[Gamston 10]

Personal responsibility is the issue.

 

I hope Ched Evans is not awarded any compensation, as a consequence of the time he served in prison.

[pretty_big 10]

Why not? He's been found not guilty?

[Gamston 10]

Why not? He's been found not guilty?

He should never have put himself into the situation he found himself in the first place. I don't want any more taxpayer's money wasted on him.

[mediumfast 10]

Sadly we don't live in an ideal world if we did then all talented sports persons would come with a built in moral compass that would indeed make them good role models.Alas in reality being born gifted in whatever field does not automatically make you a paragon of virtue however much the public suppose that it should be so.

[geared 302]

For what? He can't sue the complainant. Just because he was found innocent doesn't mean she's guilty of anything. There's no one that he can sue.

 

You're forgetting he's already served 2 years inside??

 

He's due compensation for that time, for loss of earnings

[redfox 10]

Accepting the judgement of the court, there are two totally different possibilities in cases of rape and murder. They are very different crimes.

 

In the case of a murder we know that the murder took place, so if the defendant is found not guilty then someone else must have done it.

 

It's different with rape because there are two possibilities with a not guilty verdict. Either the crime didn't happen and the allegation is false, or someone else did it.

 

 

1. Not guilty in a murder does not mean in every case that 'someone else must have done it'.

2. In the case of a rape allegation your comment 'either it did not happen' or it is false or someone else did it - displays a lack of understanding.

 

In both examples you give - murder and rape - there are certain necessary prerequisites.

In the case of murder there needs to be a deceased person (although not always a body) and that they were unlawfully killed.

If murder is charged then the prosecution must prove that the death was caused by the defendant who intended to cause the deceased really serious harm - the intent required is not intended to kill (that would not be present in a significant amount of killings). That is basic stuff.

 

Rape is much more complex particularly now given the issues a jury have to consider in the vast majority of cases - consent and reasonable belief in consent (I can link you to the Ct of Appeal ruling allowing Evans appeal against conviction if you want to know why they allowed the appeal and why (in my view) the Judge in the re-trial allowed details of the previous sexual experience of the complainant to be put before the jury) Those claiming he was wrongfully convicted are inaccurate in using that description - the first jury knew nothing at all about those details and I do not consider the verdict they returned based on the evidence they heard as wrong. The Court of Appeal allowed his appeal on the basis of new evidence.

 

In a rape - you need to prove that D intentionally penetrated X who did not consent to the penetration and that D not reasonably believing that X consented

 

The issue in Evans was consent and his reasonable belief in it.

Edited October 15, 2016 by redfox
Typo

[boyfriday 21]

Sadly we don't live in an ideal world if we did then all talented sports persons would come with a built in moral compass that would indeed make them good role models.Alas in reality being born gifted in whatever field does not automatically make you a paragon of virtue however much the public suppose that it should be so.

 

I don't believe he has any personal responsibility to be a positive role model, however we're all role models to people we're in a position to influence, whether we want to be or not.

 

The problem for celebrities is that their triumphs and tribulations are there for the world to see so their influence has a wider landscape.

 

Evans appears to be contrite following the retrial and remained diplomatically silent-that's the best course of action, but his supporters beating their chests and baying for blood are the real problem because the wider issue is the abusive behaviour of men towards women which they're inadvertently providing approval of.

 

I'd hope that my sons coming across a drunk woman alone on a night out would want to ensure her safety and wellbeing rather than escort her to a pre-booked hotel room.

[mediumfast 10]

I don't believe he has any personal responsibility to be a positive role model, however we're all role models to people we're in a position to influence, whether we want to be or not.

 

The problem for celebrities is that their triumphs and tribulations are there for the world to see so their influence has a wider landscape.

 

Evans appears to be contrite following the retrial and remained diplomatically silent-that's the best course of action, but his supporters beating their chests and baying for blood are the real problem because the wider issue is the abusive behaviour of men towards women which they're inadvertently providing approval of.

 

I'd hope that my sons coming across a drunk woman alone on a night out would want to ensure her safety and wellbeing rather than escort her to a pre-booked hotel room.

I agree fully with your comment.sometimes it seems that some footballers moral development gets frozen at the point they are taken into the cossetted world they are to inhabit..I recall myself as a teenager if I had then been given wealth and fame and the free time to make real my fevered imagination surrounded by like minded peers who knows what the outcome may have been.This does not in any way condone any behaviour but perhaps the clubs who take these emotionally undeveloped young men on should focus not only on nurturing their on field skills but pay as much attention to their social development,I know from the experience of freinds kids who have been taken on by local clubs that is not always the case.