Beggars, homeless, street drinkers & drug users in Sheffield!

[Robin-H 11]

8 minutes ago, Halibut said:

The fact that lots of people have awful childhoods and don't become addicts doesn't mean that lots of addicts haven't had awful childhoods.

 

I don't understand what the argument is. 

 

Some people with awful childhoods become addicts. Some people with awful childhoods don't. 

 

 

[Halibut 12]

2 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

I don't understand what the argument is. 

 

Some people with awful childhoods become addicts. Some people with awful childhoods don't. 

 

 

It began with my response to the ridiculous assertion made by a poster that giving drugs to beggars is what drives addiction.

[Mattcheese 10]

20 hours ago, Halibut said:

No. The real reason there are drug addicts is childhood trauma. You're wrong.

 

Absolute nonsense. 

 

Childhood trauma is doubtless ONE of the great many reasons someone becomes a drug addict, but in no way 'the real reason'. It's ludicrous to suggest that it is, and shows an worrying lack of awareness about the many problems that cause addiction. 

 

This is also a different conversation - people are asking about why there are so many beggars. I pointed out that they aren't homeless, they are drug addicts. Why they are drug addicts is another debate. 

 

One thing is for sure though - they aren't even remotely thinking about getting help or support when the people of Sheffield keep buying their drugs for them until they reach their sad demise. 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Halibut said:

It began with my response to the ridiculous assertion made by a poster that giving drugs to beggars is what drives addiction.

Again, nonsense. 

 

My post quite clearly says that the reason we see so many beggars in Sheffield is because people give money to them. 

 

If you genuinely don't see that continually giving a drug addict money for drugs isn't killing him and destroying the community, as well as stopping him seek help, then there's really no point continuing any discussion with you.  

[Halibut 12]

1 hour ago, Mattcheese said:

Absolute nonsense. 

 

Childhood trauma is doubtless ONE of the great many reasons someone becomes a drug addict, but in no way 'the real reason'. It's ludicrous to suggest that it is, and shows an worrying lack of awareness about the many problems that cause addiction. 

 

This is also a different conversation - people are asking about why there are so many beggars. I pointed out that they aren't homeless, they are drug addicts. Why they are drug addicts is another debate. 

 

One thing is for sure though - they aren't even remotely thinking about getting help or support when the people of Sheffield keep buying their drugs for them until they reach their sad demise. 

 

 

Again, nonsense. 

 

My post quite clearly says that the reason we see so many beggars in Sheffield is because people give money to them. 

 

If you genuinely don't see that continually giving a drug addict money for drugs isn't killing him and destroying the community, as well as stopping him seek help, then there's really no point continuing any discussion with you.  

Lets give them heroin on prescription so they don't need to beg to fund their addiction - or prostitute themselves, or mug your granny.

[Mattcheese 10]

59 minutes ago, Halibut said:

Lets give them heroin on prescription so they don't need to beg to fund their addiction - or prostitute themselves, or mug your granny.

An idea that I wouldn't oppose in theory. 

 

But that's not the case at the moment....so the problems around begging, and misguided but well-meaning people giving to beggars still stand. 

[the_bloke 17]

8 hours ago, Halibut said:

What utter nonsense.

It's not though is it. Hundreds of thousands of people in the UK have had the misfortune of being abused in childhood, come from broken homes, come from extreme poverty and have lived through some other equally hard and terrible events yet they aren't begging on the Moor and other similar places across the country are they. It's not a green light to become a heroin addict or a street beggar and have people like yourself white knight and treat them as victims of society who shouldn't and cannot take any responsibility for their own problems.

[Pettytom 1]

52 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

It's not though is it. Hundreds of thousands of people in the UK have had the misfortune of being abused in childhood, come from broken homes, come from extreme poverty and have lived through some other equally hard and terrible events yet they aren't begging on the Moor and other similar places across the country are they. It's not a green light to become a heroin addict or a street beggar and have people like yourself white knight and treat them as victims of society who shouldn't and cannot take any responsibility for their own problems.

So, why do you think that it happens to some?

 

Do you have a solution for those people?

[catmiss 12]

On 06/02/2020 at 13:32, Mattcheese said:

People might judge by individual experiences.....but it's far better to judge by the facts. 

 

All of which are available here: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistical-data-sets/live-tables-on-homelessness#rough-sleeping-tables

 

At last count there are 26 people in the entirety of Sheffield who are rough sleeping. 

 

There are so many beggars in Sheffield because there is a huge drugs problem - NOT a homeless problem. If you give money, you give it virtually directly to drug dealers, and continue these individuals decline into addiction. 

 

The facts are all out there - but people like ignoring them to favour their own worldview. It's not nice to think that all those beggars are at the mercy of vicious drug dealers...but they are. Watch one of the beggars next time you see them. You can usually see their dealers loitering nearby, or come past every so often to pick up money and drop off drugs. 

 

If you give money, you're the reason this is happening. There really isn't any other debate other than that. 

 

 

The statistics you quote are from the annual rough sleepers count undertaken on one night of the year and with very specific criteria. Having helped out on the count some years ago only people lying down ‘preparing for or actually sleeping’ could be counted. If a group of people sitting or laying were talking, even in sleeping bags/under blankets, they couldn’t be counted. The count only covered the city centre thus ignoring a lot of rough sleepers who move slightly out of the centre to avoid attracting unwanted attention. Anyone working with rough sleepers knows the count/statistics are therefore a gross under representation 

[Martin C 81]

2 hours ago, the_bloke said:

It's not though is it. Hundreds of thousands of people in the UK have had the misfortune of being abused in childhood, come from broken homes, come from extreme poverty and have lived through some other equally hard and terrible events yet they aren't begging on the Moor and other similar places across the country are they. It's not a green light to become a heroin addict or a street beggar and have people like yourself white knight and treat them as victims of society who shouldn't and cannot take any responsibility for their own problems.

Exactly. 

As a song (penned by a much more caring person than myself) that  I love goes:-

"Everybody wades through the same coloured ****
But it doesn't drag everyone down"

[Halibut 12]

7 hours ago, the_bloke said:

It's not though is it. Hundreds of thousands of people in the UK have had the misfortune of being abused in childhood, come from broken homes, come from extreme poverty and have lived through some other equally hard and terrible events yet they aren't begging on the Moor and other similar places across the country are they. It's not a green light to become a heroin addict or a street beggar and have people like yourself white knight and treat them as victims of society who shouldn't and cannot take any responsibility for their own problems.

 

[redruby 279]

Just as not everyone with a disadvantaged childhood ends up on the streets, there are people without childhood trauma and  poverty who end up there for other reasons.  Less likely, but it happens. Point being that these people have complex and varied issues which are not going to be helped by handing out bits of ‘spare change’.  I also don’t oppose the idea of giving addicts drugs, provided it is part of a structured plan of rehabilitation and support to get them out of the cycle of addiction. 

[jaffa1 10]

23 hours ago, the_bloke said:

It's not though is it. Hundreds of thousands of people in the UK have had the misfortune of being abused in childhood, come from broken homes, come from extreme poverty and have lived through some other equally hard and terrible events yet they aren't begging on the Moor and other similar places across the country are they. It's not a green light to become a heroin addict or a street beggar and have people like yourself white knight and treat them as victims of society who shouldn't and cannot take any responsibility for their own problems.

Well said.

22 hours ago, Pettytom said:

So, why do you think that it happens to some?

 

 

The weak minded and the gullible. 

They can't  help it , it's  how they're  made.