lottiecass   17 #2089 Posted January 27, 2020 4 hours ago, Halibut said:  Common sense tells me that prescribed heroin = more addicts that will be less liable to come off it. This is my point, for how long will an addict be prescribed heroin? there would have to be a limit, then what happens? back to the dealer it would seem so little change there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Halibut   12 #2090 Posted January 28, 2020 11 hours ago, lottiecass said: Common sense tells me that prescribed heroin = more addicts that will be less liable to come off it. This is my point, for how long will an addict be prescribed heroin? there would have to be a limit, then what happens? back to the dealer it would seem so little change there. Even when heroin was available on script (look it up) of course you couldn't just go to a GP and say 'I'd like some heroin' - you have to be an addict in the first place. How long? Until they want to come off.  Why would there have to be a limit? Do we set an arbitary time limit on scripts for insulin or antidepressants? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
lottiecass   17 #2091 Posted January 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Halibut said: Even when heroin was available on script (look it up) of course you couldn't just go to a GP and say 'I'd like some heroin' - you have to be an addict in the first place. How long? Until they want to come off.  Why would there have to be a limit? Do we set an arbitary time limit on scripts for insulin or antidepressants? Different thing entirely, nobody is diabetic or depressed through choice, heroin is a choice. Do you actually know any addicts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
saywhatnow   33 #2092 Posted January 28, 2020 Stabalise and maintain, yes. But there should always be the intention for that to become a reducing and withdrawal prescription IMO, though how long that takes could be very different between different people. Otherwise addicts are not being supported to recover, just supported to not beg and steal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
ads36 Â Â 205 #2093 Posted January 28, 2020 21 hours ago, lottiecass said: Common sense tells me that prescribed heroin = more addicts that will be less liable to come off it. This is my point, for how long will an addict be prescribed heroin? there would have to be a limit, then what happens? back to the dealer it would seem so little change there. Currently, heroin addicts are prescribed methadone, essentially forever. Â They're not addicted to methadone, they're addicted to heroin. So success is also dependent upon their will power, which doesn't work very well. It should come as no surprise that this treatment has mixed results. Â If we gave addicts heroin, there would be no heroin dealers - you can't make money selling something that can be had for free. Â (Especially when the free version is better, cleaner, safer, etc.) Â The war on drugs has been a total failure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Jim Hardie   496 #2094 Posted January 28, 2020 11 minutes ago, ads36 said:   If we gave addicts heroin, there would be no heroin dealers - you can't make money selling something that can be had for free.   What about beginners and non-addicts? Who do you think will supply them?  Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Halibut   12 #2095 Posted January 28, 2020 4 hours ago, lottiecass said: Different thing entirely, nobody is diabetic or depressed through choice, heroin is a choice. Do you actually know any addicts? Not presently, but I have. People might choose to try it for the first time, but to suggest that it's a choice to an addict is deeply misguided and wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
lottiecass   17 #2096 Posted January 28, 2020 19 minutes ago, Halibut said: Not presently, but I have. People might choose to try it for the first time, but to suggest that it's a choice to an addict is deeply misguided and wrong. Its a choice, there's plenty of help to get off heroin but the choice is not to. I know this is true, not misguided or wrong, my info comes from addicts I know, some have been on it for many years.  2 hours ago, ads36 said: Currently, heroin addicts are prescribed methadone, essentially forever.  They're not addicted to methadone, they're addicted to heroin. So success is also dependent upon their will power, which doesn't work very well. It should come as no surprise that this treatment has mixed results.  If we gave addicts heroin, there would be no heroin dealers - you can't make money selling something that can be had for free.  (Especially when the free version is better, cleaner, safer, etc.)  The war on drugs has been a total failure. I agree the war on drugs is a waste of time but prescription heroin would increase the problem. How much per day per person? just enough to stop withdrawal ? if so the street dealers would still be serving. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Halibut   12 #2097 Posted January 28, 2020 Just now, lottiecass said: Its a choice, there's plenty of help to get off heroin but the choice is not to. I know this is true, not misguided or wrong, my info comes from addicts I know, some have been on it for many years.  I agree the war on drugs is a waste of time but prescription heroin would increase the problem. How much per day per person? just enough to stop withdrawal ? if so the street dealers would still be serving. It's an overwhelming physical need, which leads to appalling side effects if not met. Suggesting that it's a choice is idiotic. It's an illness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
lindylou53   18 #2098 Posted January 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, Halibut said: It's an overwhelming physical need, which leads to appalling side effects if not met. Suggesting that it's a choice is idiotic. It's an illness. Maybe it's an illness now but initially it was a choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
lottiecass   17 #2099 Posted January 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Halibut said: It's an overwhelming physical need, which leads to appalling side effects if not met. Suggesting that it's a choice is idiotic. It's an illness. Idiotic? its a self inflicted condition, the need and the side effects can be avoided if heroin use is stopped. Who forces addicts to carry on? themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Toby   10 #2100 Posted January 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, lottiecass said: Idiotic? its a self inflicted condition, the need and the side effects can be avoided if heroin use is stopped. Who forces addicts to carry on? themselves. That is absolute rubbish. I'm not bothered about getting into a discussion about it, as there is obviously no point, but that is total rubbish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...