Beggars, homeless, street drinkers & drug users in Sheffield!

[woodmally 10]

Looks like the council are doing what Nottingham council did. Trying to stop people giving to beggars. https://www.thestar.co.uk/our-towns-and-cities/sheffield/sheffield-council-campaign-on-ways-to-help-the-homeless-1-9437302

[Ms Macbeth 73]

I agree.

 

Did anybody see the Stacey Dooley programme, 'Young and Homeless' (BBC1 Tuesday 10.45pm?)

 

It really was an eye opener. 100,000 young people homeless at any one time, usually because of family breakdown. She followed 4 kids in particular, 2 girls who had spent most of their time in care, (one was living in a tent,) and a young man whose mother had thrown him out to make room for her boyfriend. He was still managing to hold down a 0 hours job in a pizza delivery place, in spite of sleeping rough, but it meant he couldn't get a place in a hostel as he was working at the time when they closed their doors for the night.

 

Another young homeless woman had been taken in by a family thanks to a scheme which encourages people with a spare room to give a homeless person sanctuary. (I believe something similar runs in Sheffield.) With the support of this family she was now back in college and training to become a doctor.

 

Unfortunately a lot of the help/services available are stretched to breaking point or shut down altogether.

 

I saw it. Josh, the young man, was pretty impressive. I hope his mother watched the programme! As a parent, and grandparent, I struggle with the mindset that puts a new partner before a child.

 

---------- Post added 15-11-2018 at 18:09 ----------

 

Looks like the council are doing what Nottingham council did. Trying to stop people giving to beggars. https://www.thestar.co.uk/our-towns-and-cities/sheffield/sheffield-council-campaign-on-ways-to-help-the-homeless-1-9437302

 

Hopefully all the genuinely vulnerable will get the support they need.

[woodmally 10]

If you  didnt get angry before then read thsi and you will. This is from a  genuine outreach team that is helping those on the streets.  They have all been offered help but chose not to accept it.   This makes me so angry:

http://www.helpushelp.uk/blog/our-outreach-teams-out-on-the-streets-daily?fbclid=IwAR1fyN53Id93RLXAoucQFUoN3RLcgAVWZt3e6uwvHm0JgSgF76KXnFjmGio

[dutch 68]

5 hours ago, woodmally said:

If you  didnt get angry before then read thsi and you will. This is from a  genuine outreach team that is helping those on the streets.  They have all been offered help but chose not to accept it.   This makes me so angry:

http://www.helpushelp.uk/blog/our-outreach-teams-out-on-the-streets-daily?fbclid=IwAR1fyN53Id93RLXAoucQFUoN3RLcgAVWZt3e6uwvHm0JgSgF76KXnFjmGio

You are only hurting yourself by getting angry over it. There are few people who don't want to enter society again in its current shape and form.

[medusa 16]

5 hours ago, woodmally said:

If you  didnt get angry before then read thsi and you will. This is from a  genuine outreach team that is helping those on the streets.  They have all been offered help but chose not to accept it.   This makes me so angry:

http://www.helpushelp.uk/blog/our-outreach-teams-out-on-the-streets-daily?fbclid=IwAR1fyN53Id93RLXAoucQFUoN3RLcgAVWZt3e6uwvHm0JgSgF76KXnFjmGio

 

The big question here is 'why?'

 

Why don't people wish to engage with help or with society?  Why don't they trust that there will be something good at the end of this engagement?

The answers are an awful lot more complex than 'they have been offered assistance'.  They're a lot more complex than can be covered in one forum post too, because the issues are often multiple for each person, and different between people too.

 

For instance, let's take my friend Steve's case.  He was made homeless originally because his business went bust and he was unable to get any sort of help due to limitations on how many weeks you have to wait before help when you have lost a job without being sacked or made redundant.  During the time when he was actually setting up some help, he was evicted by his landlord.

 

As a result of the mental health difficulties from losing his business and home, he developed a substance abuse issue, and this along with the stress has adversely affected his mental health still further.  When accommodation was found, it was shared and he didn't know the person with whom he had been placed.  This person turned out to be a man twice his size, with a much bigger substance abuse issue and a very short temper, resulting in Steve being physically abused and robbed of whatever he had on his person every time he arrived at the lodgings in which he was meant to be staying.

 

Because of the abuse and ending up in A&E repeatedly, he stopped going back to the accommodation, and when he asked for help was told that he was making himself intentionally homeless and therefore wasn't entitled to any help.  Who would choose to go back to a flat if you knew you were going to be beaten up and lose every penny in your pocket?

He's now living rough because it's safer than the flat he's supposed to be staying in, and I see him on a fairly regular basis and move him and his stuff around whenever I can. He's lost half his body weight, he's aged about 10 years in the last 18 months, he's losing his teeth and his substance abuse issue is not getting any better.  Can you see why he doesn't want to go 'home'? 

[woodmally 10]

44 minutes ago, dutch said:

You are only hurting yourself by getting angry over it. There are few people who don't want to enter society again in its current shape and form.

 

I get angry not because they don't want to engage with society but they take up valuable resources that could be for someone else.

 

They take up A&E time and resources which could be for your elderly relative thats had a fall (whose paid into the system his or her whole life). We spend all this money on charity only to get the usual criticism from people saying the council or we as a society are not doing enough when clearly they are doing all they can. 

 

I get angry at the anti social behaviour associated with these people  and their substance addictions.   Whenever you dare criticise them you get the usual "There by the grace of god " or what if you were walking in their shoes well they have been offered help and selfishly refused to take it so yes I am very angry at that,  

 

Mr Tent city himself is setting up a new camp soon and often goes on Facebook slating services and charties who work damn hard in difficult circumstances dealing with people who are not willing to help themselves. 

 

So no if they simply lived outside society I wouldnt have a problem with it. Its the problems they cause and the refusal to help themselves that gets me mad when it takes up valuable resource for vulnerable people who need the help and are prepared to accept it.

13 minutes ago, medusa said:

 

The big question here is 'why?'

 

Why don't people wish to engage with help or with society?  Why don't they trust that there will be something good at the end of this engagement?

The answers are an awful lot more complex than 'they have been offered assistance'.  They're a lot more complex than can be covered in one forum post too, because the issues are often multiple for each person, and different between people too.

 

For instance, let's take my friend Steve's case.  He was made homeless originally because his business went bust and he was unable to get any sort of help due to limitations on how many weeks you have to wait before help when you have lost a job without being sacked or made redundant.  During the time when he was actually setting up some help, he was evicted by his landlord.

 

As a result of the mental health difficulties from losing his business and home, he developed a substance abuse issue, and this along with the stress has adversely affected his mental health still further.  When accommodation was found, it was shared and he didn't know the person with whom he had been placed.  This person turned out to be a man twice his size, with a much bigger substance abuse issue and a very short temper, resulting in Steve being physically abused and robbed of whatever he had on his person every time he arrived at the lodgings in which he was meant to be staying.

 

Because of the abuse and ending up in A&E repeatedly, he stopped going back to the accommodation, and when he asked for help was told that he was making himself intentionally homeless and therefore wasn't entitled to any help.  Who would choose to go back to a flat if you knew you were going to be beaten up and lose every penny in your pocket?

He's now living rough because it's safer than the flat he's supposed to be staying in, and I see him on a fairly regular basis and move him and his stuff around whenever I can. He's lost half his body weight, he's aged about 10 years in the last 18 months, he's losing his teeth and his substance abuse issue is not getting any better.  Can you see why he doesn't want to go 'home'? 

 

I can see his situation but he is the exception that proves the rule.  There are plenty on the streets that are not in this situation as the blog suggests.  They are offered help but refuse it. Do you not think if Help us Help met up with Steve they would mention his reason for not going home and people would have sympathy. Unlike the person outside the station that's got a home but just begging to make money and praying on peoples sympathy.

Edited November 21, 2018 by woodmally

[woodmally 10]

Looks like Tent City has gone back up in Park Hill https://www.facebook.com/shefftentcity/posts/2230296700586102?__xts__[0]=68.ARBaR_cQ1mraD6DXLVn-vn7wp_HvvL0tvG1gpXPoBiFLlTtHCDGfiLPO6ikiZXG2Nf6ccDQOLX7ddzz5092BiulALmWgNlL5lNCxkCvNsNiwY8bwGZ9cEg_EYSJ_-ESS44sOUI63vKqPaDHWRrVimnCSs30IXx61wNtbSLDYJhoRPgPeddMrXJ3PJo6SJjXShRFi-ImJI0bdqXOWPCwUqey2UqZ23lP2aCRO8mTUZbQRfOxtwEzEL7GBHllSdYIyfyONtKHqb2ON34s5q1gfqBy7GzZoC2Ir5CcdIXImyQYKOEFnjDoBe9dlgY4SPfoOHR5rT-kMPO3V9rAj40lSw5URsYBi&__tn__=-R

[Albert smith 11]

2 hours ago, woodmally said:

Looks like Tent City has gone back up in Park Hill https://www.facebook.com/shefftentcity/posts/2230296700586102?__xts__[0]=68.ARBaR_cQ1mraD6DXLVn-vn7wp_HvvL0tvG1gpXPoBiFLlTtHCDGfiLPO6ikiZXG2Nf6ccDQOLX7ddzz5092BiulALmWgNlL5lNCxkCvNsNiwY8bwGZ9cEg_EYSJ_-ESS44sOUI63vKqPaDHWRrVimnCSs30IXx61wNtbSLDYJhoRPgPeddMrXJ3PJo6SJjXShRFi-ImJI0bdqXOWPCwUqey2UqZ23lP2aCRO8mTUZbQRfOxtwEzEL7GBHllSdYIyfyONtKHqb2ON34s5q1gfqBy7GzZoC2Ir5CcdIXImyQYKOEFnjDoBe9dlgY4SPfoOHR5rT-kMPO3V9rAj40lSw5URsYBi&__tn__=-R

Well they have taken Park Hill away from the folk that it was meant to house so if some of em are choosing to reappear then so be it.

[onewheeldave 22]

On 11/21/2018 at 4:16 PM, woodmally said:

 

 

I can see his situation but he is the exception that proves the rule.  There are plenty on the streets that are not in this situation as the blog suggests.  They are offered help but refuse it. Do you not think if Help us Help met up with Steve they would mention his reason for not going home and people would have sympathy. Unlike the person outside the station that's got a home but just begging to make money and praying on peoples sympathy.

He's not the exception. Many people are in the position of being offered 'help' that they can't actually take. 

 

I speak from extensive experience of being an autistic person in this society as the same thing is a serious issue in autism 'support'. People may work hard in support organisations, but, if the bureaucracy involved makes getting support virtually impossible, the result to the end user is the same, no support, and, being accused, wrongly, of not taking offered help.

 

Worth mentioning that a disproportionate percentage of the homeless population are autistic.

 

You are perpetuating a harmful myth, please stop it.

[woodmally 10]

12 minutes ago, onewheeldave said:

He's not the exception. Many people are in the position of being offered 'help' that they can't actually take. 

 

I speak from extensive experience of being an autistic person in this society as the same thing is a serious issue in autism 'support'. People may work hard in support organisations, but, if the bureaucracy involved makes getting support virtually impossible, the result to the end user is the same, no support, and, being accused, wrongly, of not taking offered help.

 

Worth mentioning that a disproportionate percentage of the homeless population are autistic.

 

You are perpetuating a harmful myth, please stop it.

I'm not perpetuating any myth. I am stating facts. Someone wrote a blog about their time doing the outreach in the city centre and every person they met refused to accept offer of help. One bloke said that he couldnt walk home it was too far. Well aside from the obvious question of how the heck did he get to the city centre in the first place surely if he had asked for a lift home they would have offered him transport rather than let him stay on the streets.  The council and charities themselves are asking people not to give money to beggars as it means they dont take up the offers of help thats available. You see it in the city centre.  We have a large number of charities all saying the same thing do you think they are lying and "perpetuating a myth". 

[onewheeldave 22]

Just now, woodmally said:

I'm not perpetuating any myth. I am stating facts. Someone wrote a blog about their time doing the outreach in the city centre and every person they met refused to accept offer of help. One bloke said that he couldnt walk home it was too far. Well aside from the obvious question of how the heck did he get to the city centre in the first place surely if he had asked for a lift home they would have offered him transport rather than let him stay on the streets.  The council and charities themselves are asking people not to give money to beggars as it means they dont take up the offers of help thats available. You see it in the city centre.  We have a large number of charities all saying the same thing do you think they are lying and "perpetuating a myth". 

I'm not talking about 'beggars'- I'm talking about the homeless. If charities are perpetuating the myth that homeless people turn down help (as opposed to the 'help' being totally unsuitable (an example being Medusas above), or, innaccessible due to the obscene bureaucracy surrounding it), then yes, clearly they are perpetuating a myth.

 

These are standard systemic flaws in the majority of 'support' systems, which are responsible for the tens of thousands of disabled, mentally ill, autistic, homeless etc, etc, who are very effectively denied the support they are legally entitled to, and, desperately need, because of the rigid, inflexible bureaucracy that is necessary.

Edited November 22, 2018 by onewheeldave

[Martin C 81]

6 hours ago, onewheeldave said:

I'm not talking about 'beggars'- I'm talking about the homeless.

If we could only establish once and for all which (of the 'far too many' looking lost and forlorn) in our great city are genuinely homeless (as opposed to the fraudulent low life oxygen wasting chancing rancid scumbag beggars) then even a curmudgeonly tight Yorkshireman like myself may change the habit of a lifetime