Can I carry gardening tools in public?

[El Cid 214]

Part of my working hours on Friday night were 10pm to 3am. I was "carrying". Why should traditional working hours get preferential treatment?

 

Going Equipped for Theft.

 

If the police thought you were going equipped for anything illegal at midnight, I think you might be arrested

[RootsBooster 24]

Going Equipped for Theft.

 

If the police thought you were going equipped for anything illegal at midnight, I think you might be arrested

 

'Going equipped for theft' has nothing to do with the time of day, it's to do with intent.

[El Cid 214]

Police have arrested a teenager after reports a ‘killer clown’ brandishing a chainsaw was scaring people on a university campus.

 

I have seen news items were the Police arrested people for leaving their child, whilst dressed-up as a clown, carrying a baseball bat, and a plastic knife.

 

In my day people paid good money to get scared, by a scary film or a ghost train, now the Police arrest them

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/killer-clowns-teenager-arrested-over-clown-chainsaw-rampage-at-brunel-university-a3366516.html

[RootsBooster 24]

 

I have seen news items were the Police arrested people for leaving their child, whilst dressed-up as a clown, carrying a baseball bat, and a plastic knife

 

I didn't realise it's illegal to leave your child dressed up as a clown with plastic weapons (that's my school holiday childcare plans out the window now).

[Cyclone 10]

Yeah but notice how, first and foremost, it mentions"immediately foldable"...

Which an inward folding blade on a leatherman is not (if used with the handles closed together).

Personally I think it's a silly detail to argue, the threat of lock knives is that the rigid blade allows a firm stabbing motion - a leatherman of the type we're discussing may not be able to immediately fold fully but it's certainly not a rigid blade and will fold at least to 90 degrees immediately.

 

So it is immediately foldable, there is no mechanism that stops it folding... It might require more movements to achieve a fully closed position, but that is not by any means locked into position.

So I don't think that precedent is actually relevant.

[RootsBooster 24]

So it is immediately foldable, there is no mechanism that stops it folding... It might require more movements to achieve a fully closed position, but that is not by any means locked into position.

So I don't think that precedent is actually relevant.

 

I've been looking through some other cases and it does seem a very oddly contested and disputed area (the definition of a folding knife).

 

Back to your point...

If it requires more movements to achieve a fully closed (folded) position, how is that immediately foldable?

You say that there is no mechanism that stops it folding yet the pivoted handle obstructs the blade and must be moved out of the way first in order to fold the blade away.

Would you be able to immediately enter a room if there was an object obstructing your entry? Or would you have to move it out of the way first?

 

Like I said, I think it's a silly point to argue anyway, the blade may not be able to fold away immediately but it's hardly locked in place or held rigidly, to make it an effective stabbing weapon.

Section 139 makes no mention of folding knives having to be immediately foldable so I suspect it's more to do with the prosecution arguing the toss.

Edited October 13, 2016 by RootsBooster

[shims 10]

If you're not allowed to carry certain things in public, getting them from the shop to the car could be problematic.

 

For instance If I were to buy a samurai sword (and I wouldn't because I'm not a samurai and never do any samurai-ing at all) I'd have to park the car outside the Samurai Outfitters with a window down and ask the proprietor to hurl the weapon into the car from the shop doorway so as to avoid the prohibited carry. That could cut the upholstery or maybe sever a passing pedestrian's head on its trajectory so I think it's only sensible that carrying samurai swords in public should be mandatory.

[Bonzo77 13]

If you're not allowed to carry certain things in public, getting them from the shop to the car could be problematic.

 

For instance If I were to buy a samurai sword (and I wouldn't because I'm not a samurai and never do any samurai-ing at all) I'd have to park the car outside the Samurai Outfitters with a window down and ask the proprietor to hurl the weapon into the car from the shop doorway so as to avoid the prohibited carry. That could cut the upholstery or maybe sever a passing pedestrian's head on its trajectory so I think it's only sensible that carrying samurai swords in public should be mandatory.

 

I'm thinking that samurai sales professionals should have to pass a test which allows them to take said sward from the store to your car.

However, transporting the sward from your car to your home may prove difficult, unless said professional travels with you and incorporates the price of a taxi back to the store within the price of the sward?

 

Am I over thinking this?

[shims 10]

I'm thinking that samurai sales professionals should have to pass a test which allows them to take said sward from the store to your car.

However, transporting the sward from your car to your home may prove difficult, unless said professional travels with you and incorporates the price of a taxi back to the store within the price of the sward?

 

Am I over thinking this?

Under if anything...

[El Cid 214]

I'm thinking that samurai sales professionals should have to pass a test which allows them to take said sward from the store to your car.

However, transporting the sward from your car to your home may prove difficult, unless said professional travels with you and incorporates the price of a taxi back to the store within the price of the sward?

 

Am I over thinking this?

 

People carrying dangerous weapons as part of their job could wear some sort of uniform that tells the police they are carrying out a task and are not dangerous.

 

A red wig and big shoes

[Cyclone 10]

I've been looking through some other cases and it does seem a very oddly contested and disputed area (the definition of a folding knife).

 

Back to your point...

If it requires more movements to achieve a fully closed (folded) position, how is that immediately foldable?

It depends on the definition of "immediate" I suppose.

A regular (single movement) folding knife still takes time to fold, it requires physical effort and movement. The key is that the folding can be started without any other action first (or so I would argue).

The same applies to the leather man in question, the folding operation can be started immediately, it takes time to do, but the blade is never locked in an extended position by a mechanism that prevents the start of the folding operation.

You say that there is no mechanism that stops it folding yet the pivoted handle obstructs the blade and must be moved out of the way first in order to fold the blade away.

To finish folding it away, not to start the process, it is simply part of the process of folding, not a mechanism of locking.

Would you be able to immediately enter a room if there was an object obstructing your entry? Or would you have to move it out of the way first?

Does a door handle attached to a latch stop you entering a room, or is it simply part of the mechanism of opening a door?

 

Like I said, I think it's a silly point to argue anyway, the blade may not be able to fold away immediately but it's hardly locked in place or held rigidly, to make it an effective stabbing weapon.

Section 139 makes no mention of folding knives having to be immediately foldable so I suspect it's more to do with the prosecution arguing the toss.

Absolutely, these things always come down to two barristers and a judge setting a precedent because the law isn't clear.

[Obelix 11]

Case law though says otherwise, as referenced further up the thread. The blade has to be immediately foldable which is taken as meaning it can be fully closed. If it stops on something halfway theres a problem.