Supertram future- consultation

[Bilge 34]

It takes a few years for tram lines to prove their worth to people. For a long time it just seems like disruption and traffic jams. It's the sort of big public infrastructure project that only public sector (or arms-length public sector) bodies can do because of the huge risk of not making any money for quite a while (or ever). The benefit has to be measured across the economy of the whole city or region. If it costs money maybe it's worth it? The NHS and schools 'cost money'.

 

I agree that any extensions need to concentrate on areas separated from road traffic where possible.

It should be better integrated with bus stops and routes.

The rail station facilities need to be better.

[Cyclone 10]

No mass public transport system can overcome preference for door to door travel without any waiting or need to consult timetables and route maps. I'd be interested to know how many taxi journeys are made today compared with 60 years ago.

 

As a nation we'd far rather travel door to door by car, taxi, cycle or walk, than wait for a bus or tram. Adding interchanges makes for greater chance of delays. Only severe restrictions on car and taxi access in city centres would make mass public transport more viable. But we've got so used to cars and taxis any other systems have to be extensive, very frequent, fairly cheap, and reliable to have any chance to compete. London largely achieves this, but restrictions on private cars still don't deter a lot.

 

I'll tell all the people commuting on the tram when I catch it in a short while that they're not really there because they prefer to use a car. Myself included, I'm probably imagining that I'm leaving the car in the garage.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

No mass public transport system can overcome preference for door to door travel without any waiting or need to consult timetables and route maps. I'd be interested to know how many taxi journeys are made today compared with 60 years ago.

 

As a nation we'd far rather travel door to door by car, taxi, cycle or walk, than wait for a bus or tram. Adding interchanges makes for greater chance of delays. Only severe restrictions on car and taxi access in city centres would make mass public transport more viable. But we've got so used to cars and taxis any other systems have to be extensive, very frequent, fairly cheap, and reliable to have any chance to compete. London largely achieves this, but restrictions on private cars still don't deter a lot.

 

Idea of "door to door travel" has never applied to cars in urban areas since mass manufacturing began.

Advertising plays a huge part in perpetuating this myth, promising the purchaser access to empty city streets, admiration and fun.

 

In reality most journeys within urban areas are not governed by journey distance and cost but by journey time. This is reflected by the mode of travel chosen by residents the further they are from the centre and/or along lines of good communication.

 

Another major factor is of course the widely held idea that since I have a car I should use it for everything- luckily a view not held by an increasing number of people and hence the need to provide better alternatives.

 

Sheffield historically had no suburban railways, most stations in the valley bottoms served industrial rather than suburban areas and had very poor stopping services.

Walking was the norm with trams and later buses enabling the extending outwards of the 'burbs.

 

The pro-car policies from the middle of the last century has led to an ever increasing amount of our cities being allocated to cars as demand increases.

The failure of the pro-car policies included pointless and now abandoned inner city through routes and the abandonment of dedicated tram, train and bus routes.

 

The cost of these mistakes will be very expensive and difficult to remedy and for some difficult to adapt to.

[Guest busdriver1]

 

There's been only one bid to the government to fund an extension, which was the spur up to the Hallamshire hospital. The government turned it down because the benefits didn't justify the costs. Nothing to do with the initial system.

 

The tram train trial is a Network Rail initiative, it wasn't promoted by Supertram.

 

So who was going to fund the Rotherham extension?

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

Whatever a tram ('super' or otherwise) can do, a trolleybus can do better. No need for road-digging/closures, no track to lay, no getting blocked by parked cars etc., no need to import specially-made vehicles from Europe.

[crookedspire 10]

Whatever a tram ('super' or otherwise) can do, a trolleybus can do better. No need for road-digging/closures, no track to lay, no getting blocked by parked cars etc., no need to import specially-made vehicles from Europe.

 

Iv always said that trolleybuses are better than trams no need to dig up roads only the over head wires need setting up . Get to places that trams would struggle to get too. Leeds were going to do a trolleybus cone back no idea if its got further. No doubt someone will come along and derail the idea

[1978 14]

I'll tell all the people commuting on the tram when I catch it in a short while that they're not really there because they prefer to use a car. Myself included, I'm probably imagining that I'm leaving the car in the garage.

 

Thank you for allowing me to point our that the reason some use buses and trams and don't all walk, cycle or drive is down to a combination of cost, time and convenience. If you're fortunate to live close to a tram stop, and the route goes to your place of work of course most of us would use it. Most of us don't live near a tram stop. That's what many would like. (Some of us would still prefer to walk, jog or cycle for the exercise and fresh air.)

 

In my school days it took 10 minutes to cycle, 20 minutes to walk, or 40 minutes by bus - the routes didn't go the right way.I usually cycled and never got a bus home.

 

For the first four years of my working life I walked because there was no bus going to either of the places I needed to go. My next location would take two buses and over an hour, a 40 minute walk, or 10 minutes by car to park beside the office. If it was fine I walked.

 

My last job took 20 minutes by car. Bus and tram required 90 minutes to be safe. I jogged it once a week in that time. By the time I left parking was becoming an issue.

 

I used to live in Newcastle. From my home I could walk into the centre in about 35 minutes. Buses were every 3 minutes and took about 15 minutes. Today the Metro is as frequent, quicker, and offers excellent connections. Using a car would normally be the last option both now and then.

 

Mass transport succeeds where large numbers want to go in the same direction, the relative cost is reasonable, and the alternatives are for one or more reasons inconvenient.

 

Having to wait for an hourly bus is very different from the expectation that it shouldn't be long to wait on a 3 minute frequency route. People I know have to take two buses, where one is an hourly service. It can easily take them 2 hours to get home, particularly if a bus is missed. If they could afford cars they'd not think twice about using them and getting home in less than half an hour.

 

I'm fortunate to have kept fit. I'm very aware that others, of all ages, are not. Everyone's circumstances are different. The big challenge today is that more of us want go longer distances, more often, and we can't help but get in each others way!

[LeMaquis 10]

Iv always said that trolleybuses are better than trams.....

 

Sheffield has never had trolleybuses so how do you know they'd be better than trams?

 

No doubt someone will come along and derail the idea

 

They don't run on rails.

[Planner1 431]

So who was going to fund the Rotherham extension?

 

Funding came mainly from the government at that time.

 

The Rotherham extension idea was dropped due to the level of local opposition. It never got as far as a funding bid.

Edited September 23, 2016 by Planner1

[crookedspire 10]

Sheffield has never had trolleybuses so how do you know they'd be better than trams?

 

Well no time like the present!

 

 

They don't run on rails.

Got you!.............

[LeMaquis 10]

Well no time like the present

 

And your evidence for that is?

[Hook 10]

...and continue to serve the areas where residents contribute the least to the council's coffers. No offence, but it would be nice if the tram system served areas with higher rates of employment to make people's journeys to work easier (rather than free daytime trips to Meadowhall); the areas where residents contribute the most to the funding of this kind of venture. Many people living in Jordanthorpe, Batemoor and Lowedges don't need the tram...those living in the Abbeydale Road/Ecclesall Road corridors do...

 

 

I suggest you get on the tram during rush hour and see just how many of the tram passengers are hard working people using the yellow route to get to work at meadowhall, Carbrook, attercliffe etc. Stop spouting judgmental crap.