Did you go to a grammar school?

[TORONTONY 10]

So....Child (a) could have taken the exam one year and pass. Child (b) takes the same exam the following year, produces the same standard as Child (a) but may fail. With no consistency, it certainly seems like flawed system to me.

 

 

 

 

Very flawed, I was child (a), I finished up a tradesman and worked until I was 69. My cousin was child (b) he became a Bank President for the whole country. He retired at 55 with 90% salary for 10 years, he now lives a life of luxury in Bondi Beach Australia. It is what you make of yourself after your schooling that matters.

[hillsbro 32]

So....Child (a) could have taken the exam one year and pass. Child (b) takes the same exam the following year, produces the same standard as Child (a) but may fail. With no consistency, it certainly seems like flawed system to me.

I trhink the difficulty lies in the words "the same exam". Despite all attempts to set questions at the same level, it would have been difficult to achieve the same degree of "hardness" each year. When child (b) took the exam the questions might have been easier, as beechnut suggested, and if the previous year's pass mark were maintained, the number of pupils qualifying for grammar schools would have exceeded the number of available places. Another problem with the 11-plus related to the fact that schools opened, closed, were enlarged etc. and so the availability of grammar school places in any one area varied over time, independently of the number of local pupils who were potential grammar school entrants.

[beechnut 10]

... it would have been difficult to achieve the same degree of "hardness" each year... Another problem with the 11-plus related to the fact that schools opened, closed, were enlarged etc. and so the availability of grammar school places in any one area varied over time...

Quite right - it all boils down to the fact that the 11-plus system was competitive, with only a certain number of grammar school places being available each year.

[handypandy 14]

I'm not trying to stress the point for myself and I have nothing whatsoever against competition. Although I was always 'middle of the road' within the 'A' stream of my secondary modern, it was clear then, as it is now, that I was never going to be grammar school material. My eldest 'child' is now 40 yrs old and my youngest is 32 so that ship sailed a good while ago too. I am just trying to make my point against the re-introduction of the system. I would rather have top quality, well paid teachers within streamed classes in each year of the comprehensive system. A system where the pupil in a lower stream can still aspire to the higher streams. A system where kids in the lower streams might shine in practical rather than academic skills and on 'speech day' can stand with pride, shoulder to shoulder with their academic peers.

 

 

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[beechnut 10]

I don't think we need worry about the 11-plus system being reintroduced nationwide. Whatever system is in place won't be ideal for all pupils - the challenge is trying to achieve the optimum system. Germany, for example, seems to achieve good results with a blend of selective schools (e.g. Gymnasium = grammar school) and comprehensives (Gesamtschule).

[echo beach 587]

Another factor to bear in mind is that school year groups can vary in ability. One year the pupils may be more academically able whilst the next year they may be less so.

With a flexible 'pass' mark and a finite number of grammar school places available some able pupils in the better year will miss out whilst other less able ones in the

other year will be successful.

An equitable system? I think not.

 

echo.

[mikeG 16]

I went to King Teds, 1954-59. Got 10 'O' levels and left to work in Barclays Bank. The teaching at the school was very good but career guidance was non-existent. In the 5th form, we'd nip over the road at lunch time for a smoke and to chat to some of the Girls High School girls or 'birds' as we used to call them.

[hillsbro 32]

I went to King Teds, 1954-59. Got 10 'O' levels and left to work in Barclays Bank...

Same here - except it was 1959-66 and Midland Bank! The teaching was certainly very good; the lack of careers guidance may have been partly due to the fact that we were more-or-less expected to go to university (as almost two-thirds of my year did). Whether or not there should be selection at 11 will continue to be debated, but there is no other way that a back street kid like me (see post #7) could have benefited from such a high standard of education.

[trastrick 866]

Same here - except it was 1959-66 and Midland Bank! The teaching was certainly very good; the lack of careers guidance may have been partly due to the fact that we were more-or-less expected to go to university (as almost two-thirds of my year did). Whether or not there should be selection at 11 will continue to be debated, but there is no other way that a back street kid like me (see post #7) could have benefited from such a high standard of education.

 

There's something about poor kids and banking?

 

My last job in Sheffield was wiring up alarms at the Westminster Bank near Banners, in Attercliffe. I was so proud that I had the key to go in and work alone on Saturdays.

 

A few months later I was a teller at the Toronto-Dominion Bank in a smart suit and tie!

[hillsbro 32]

... I was so proud that I had the key to go in and work alone on Saturdays...

...and I never put into action my plan to leave the bank (it's now The Banker's Draft) on a Saturday afternoon wearing a mask and a striped jersey with a sack over my shoulder labelled SWAG.

[trastrick 866]

...and I never put into action my plan to leave the bank (it's now The Banker's Draft) on a Saturday afternoon wearing a mask and a striped jersey with a sack over my shoulder labelled SWAG.

 

I got to thinking about that bank I worked in as an apprentice electrician. On Google I found the old abandoned building on the corner of Attercliffe and Shirland, near Banners.

 

But the big old Midland bank was almost directly across the street, so I'm thinking it must have been one of the other banks.

 

Funny how this stuff can drive you crazy

[Whit 11]

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Talking of borderline , a cousin of mine was that and his parents had to may a sum of money, which got him into Woodhouse grammar. I only remember because my mother told me that I had passed a "full grammar" to go to De La Salle, but his was called marginal or intermediate or something. I don't know if it was because I went to a Catholic one and he to a non Catholic one. Either way he went on to be a bank President and now lives in Bondi Beach , whereas I became a tradesman lol

 

As far as I know Woodhouse Grammar was a 'full grammar' with an excellent academic record , certainly not an intermediate school. There were intermediate schools in the area at the time but Woodhouse wasn't one of them. I never heard of anyone having to pay to enter the school